Bridge of Spies (w/ Elijah Davidson)

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It wasn't closely.
What's the secret thing?

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Just got to find something you
love.

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To do and then do it for the
rest of your life.

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I don't want to be a product of
my environment, I want my

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environment to be a product of
me.

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Hello and welcome to the
Establishing Shot podcast where

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we do deep dives into directors
and their filmographies.

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I am your host, Eli Price and we
are here on episode 105 of the

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podcast.
It is exciting to be just

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rolling along in this Spielberg
Series.

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A couple of I guess like really
like a few like historical

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dramas in a row of sorts.
So three kind of different, but

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also like in the same vein.
So yeah, we're we're getting

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into Bridge of Spies today.
So excited about that.

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But before we do that, I have to
introduce a returning guest.

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Elijah Davidson is returning.
He is a real storky music, I

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would say.
And as as old Rudolph Abel and

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in the film says, I probably
butchered the pronunciation of

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that, but that's OK.
I'm I'm not Russian so can't

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hold it against me.
Just how we know you're not,

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yeah.
I'm not a Tony winning.

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Yeah, Tony and Oscar winning.
Actor either.

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Yeah, that's all right.
Not many better than Mark

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Rylance.
Yeah, yeah.

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But how are you doing?
Doing good.

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Yeah, doing just great.
Yep.

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Enjoying the enjoying the
summer, doing an extra time with

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the kids.
No worry about that.

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So yeah, good times.
Yeah, great.

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Elijah.
He has been on a couple episodes

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before and you may or may not
remember that he is a is it is

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is the your title like Co
director?

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Is that what it is at the at
brim film at Fuller Seminary in

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California blanking on the city.
What city is Fuller in?

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It's in Pasadena, OK.
Here in Los Angeles, yeah.

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Yeah, Yep.
And so, yeah, they, they have a

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lot of stuff going on all the
time over there.

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But you also have personal
projects that you work on with

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your writing.
Do you, do you have anything

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that's come out recently or
coming out soon or that you're

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just like haven't have rattling
around in your brain?

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Oh, there's always things
rattling around in my brain.

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I get the doctor to check that
out and they said I'm OK.

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So no, I yeah, I don't, I don't
have any projects, large

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projects that I'm working on
right now.

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I I've been, I've been doing a
lot of kind of prep work for a

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project that I don't really
wanna talk about yet, but it's

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been fun to start to get in my
head around.

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I don't know if you've met this
is like, but there's times where

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I like I know the next thing I'm
gonna write and but I don't know

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exactly what it's going to look
like, but I have kind of an

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over.
I have a big view of what it is

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and I tend to be more of a
forest first in the trees kind

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of person, like in every
circumstance.

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I'm also kind of like bad at
bird watching and things like

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that because I'm more of a see
the forest, not the trees, not

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the details kind of person.
Yeah.

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So I get AI get like a feel for
the forest and then I try to

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figure out what trees are there,
what trails I got to draw down,

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all that kind of stuff.
So I'm currently in the the

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forest is taking shape and you
know what?

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I'm trying to figure out what
goes where.

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So yeah, it's it's kind of a fun
process.

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I've, I've learned over the
years to distrust that process

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and know that eventually I'll,
I'll figure it all out.

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So that's fun, though.
No, that's cool.

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Yeah, I definitely.
Can relate to that.

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I'm.
I'm kind of like the, you know,

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get home.
Wife says how was your day?

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Pretty.
It was good.

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It was fine.
That's the forest was fine, you

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know, Yeah.
Have to dig in for those

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details.
Yeah.

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Yeah.
But no, that's cool.

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Yeah, other than that, I don't
know.

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I, I've started, I'm always, I'm
always writing and like

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exercising and I, yeah, that's
fun.

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I've started, I started doing a
little review writing, but not

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for not for Fuller, OK, some
Fuller stuff, but a little extra

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different on the side kind of
review writing kind of kind of

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feel something out like a way of
writing about movies that I'm,

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that I'm interested in, in
doing.

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So I've been doing that in my
newsletter when, when a movie

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like really connects with me.
I've been trying to figure out a

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way to write about, write about
it a little bit differently, a

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little more personally.
I've, I've, for the longest time

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I've, I've been very, I've been
very particular about keeping

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myself out of like review
writing and writing about films

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and put the focus in the movie.
And it, it was just a practice

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for a long time.
And I'm now trying to work like,

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how do I, how do I include
myself in this experience in a

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way that's helpful for a reader
and helpful to like, you know,

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cuz when you're writing an
interview, you're always just

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communicating your experience in
the film in a way that hopefully

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opens the film up, I think to
somebody else.

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And so trying to work myself
into that a little bit

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differently.
It's been fun.

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But anyway, I, I, I've been
doing that writing for my

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newsletter.
I had an e-mail newsletter.

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So.
Yeah.

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And I I am subscribed to that
and I I did, I meant to bring it

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up before we started recording
and forgot, but I did.

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I did see that you had a very
lengthy exploration of the new

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Mission Impossible movie.
So it did.

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That was fun.
Yeah.

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Full disclosure, I don't think I
finished it.

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I think I I got like halfway
through and then something came

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up and then I forgot to go back
and finish it.

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Yeah.
So I'll have to do that.

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But but I was AI was a little
mixed on it.

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The to me like the lows were low
and the highs were very high.

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Yeah.
And and and, you know, kind of

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comes out as like one of those
like really fun 7 out of 10

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movies for me.
But I really enjoyed like your

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like enthusiasm for it as just
like a like super fan of the

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franchise.
Yeah.

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So that so yeah, that that kind
of personal element can be fun

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even if you're like, I don't, I
don't necessarily agree on the

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take, but I love how much you
love it.

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Like.
I love reading.

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Reviews like that.
Yeah, yeah, me too.

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Me too, you know, And it's, I
think if, if someone can like

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communicate their enthusiasm or
their distaste, I suppose that

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would be fun to read too.
Or are there any difference?

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That's kind of a hard review to
write is indifference.

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But I don't know, I, I, I'm, I'm
kind of inclined to think if the

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writing is fun to read, you can
write whatever you want.

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And then, you know, there's
ethical considerations with

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staying true to the film and all
that.

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But yeah, yeah, if the writing's
fun to read, you can do whatever

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you want.
So I'm trying to, trying to work

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some of that in.
So yeah, it's been fun.

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Thanks for reading even half of
it.

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Yeah.
I need to now.

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I need to go back and read the
full thing.

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But yeah, so you what, just
before we like get into the

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weeds of the movie and forget
what if you want to like plug

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where you can sign up for that,
What what's the best place to do

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that?
Yeah, you can just go to my

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website.
It's just my name, Elijah

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davidson.com, and it's pretty
easy to find in there.

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Yeah, I've.
Done that Once Upon a time, but

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you can.
Even get a free a free little

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ebook when you do that too.
So, yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, and you have a few of
those.

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The Miyazaki was the most
recent.

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Miyazaki was the most recent
one.

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Yeah, Yeah.
There's also one on Christopher

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Nolan and one on Guillermo del
Toro as well.

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Yeah.
So, yeah.

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Very cool.
And I think the other thing that

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I always love to plug is the the
Come and See book.

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Which you can.
Also get an e-mail form.

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I have.
The book but I rarely I rarely

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open the book but I read the the
emails every Sunday.

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Yeah, great.
So I.

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Think I'm at I think the last
one was Umbrellas of Scherberg.

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Fun.
Yeah.

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Which?
Which I showed to my wife.

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She she was not a huge fan, but
I love it.

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It was a bit like, I think it
was a bit too melodramatic for

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her.
Yeah, it's a bit of a melancholy

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film for sure.
Yeah, and but yeah, I I love

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that one.
We did musicals March, so we

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watched.
Oh, neat.

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We'd watched some musicals with
the kids, but we also like

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watched some Just Us 2 back.
In home so.

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That was one of my picks that
she didn't love, but yeah, she

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appreciated it I guess.
Yeah, even a bad movie is over

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pretty soon.
Yeah, not that that's a bad

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movie.
I mean, the movie you don't

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like, even the movie you don't
like is over pretty soon.

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It's definitely not a bad movie.
It's actually a great movie.

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Pretty amazing, yeah.
But yeah, go check out Elijah

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davidson.com to see everything
that Elijah's doing.

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Come and see.
I should say a little bit more

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about that, actually.
OK, Do it.

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Yeah, the I wrote this book and
it's, it's the 250 greatest

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films of all time.
Yes.

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And I wrote very concise
devotions based on devotional

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interactions with each of those,
each of those films.

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So all 250.
And there's a little written

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piece and then a little model
prayer at the end.

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And it just takes you through
film history and otherwise go

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through the material too, that
just takes you through film

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history and you kind of learn
about all the all the great

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movies and not the movies I
think are great necessarily.

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I mean, I do think a lot of them
are great.

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But it's the movies that film
scholars and film makers and

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film critics have kind of named
consistently as the greatest

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films of all time.
So you learn a lot.

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I don't spoil the movies.
It's like 1 movie in there that

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I spoil.
But I warned you first

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everything else about spoil.
So it's a fun way to learn about

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film history and learn about
what I see God doing throughout

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the mystery.
And then it's a book.

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But it's also an e-mail,
completely free e-mail you can

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sign up for.
And like Eli was saying, you can

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get every Sunday morning, you'll
get a new one in your inbox.

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And they just take you all the
way through.

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So it is a five year, A5 year
e-mail list.

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It's a long, long time of
getting emails from me every

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Sunday morning.
Yeah.

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I don't know how how long I've
been in it to be at Umbrellas,

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but it's been a while, yeah.
In the 60s, you're, you're, you

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know, you're more than halfway
through and there's a lot of

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movies in the 60s in there.
So yeah, yeah, you're moving

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along.
Yeah, I will say it.

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And just because, like, whenever
you sign up, you start at the

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beginning of film history.
So even though Eli's had

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Umbrellas of Shoreburg, if you
sign up, you'll start right with

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the very first films ever made,
which went.

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Through SO.
Yeah, yeah, I have.

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I have a like running.
So when I get the e-mail every

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Sunday, I add it to a letterbox
list.

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It's a private list because I
don't want other people to be

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spoiled on what the movies are
without like signing up or

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getting the books.
So it's just for me, but I but

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it, you know, letterbox, let's
show you like how many you've

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seen, right?
And I've been like hovering like

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around like 52 percent 5152 and
I think umbrellas bumped me up

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to 53%.
I was like, yes, so.

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That's good.
Yeah.

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When I started that project, I I
had seen, I had seen about 55%

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of the films that were on the
list.

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I had a lot of watching to do.
Yeah, which was which was great.

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And then I had a lot of
rewatching to do because I

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rewatched anything that I wrote
about too.

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But but it was cool.
I'm certainly a completionist

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00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,240
now.
I would be a liar.

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So I don't know if you I have, I
have another private list.

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I think it's still private.
I don't think I ever made it

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public, but I I ranked the films
as I watched them and wrote

234
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about them in my own private,
kind of like what's the best,

235
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what's not the best, what's
better than whatever.

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So when I was all done with the
writing project, I had like, the

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250 films of greatest films
ranked as well.

238
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Yeah, just privately, which was
pretty fun.

239
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Yeah, I don't have them ranked.
I've just been like keeping them

240
00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:17,960
like a chronological running
list.

241
00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,760
That's good.
But it would be quite the task

242
00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:25,080
to to rank them.
Yeah, I had to just do it movie

243
00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,920
by movie as I had them in.
That was kind of like my reward

244
00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:33,280
for having watched and
researched and what about each

245
00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:35,280
film was I could, like, add it
to that list and ring.

246
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:37,360
Yeah, it's like when I was done
with that movie, I can move on

247
00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:38,440
to the next one.
Yeah, yeah.

248
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I love, I love, I love like
arguing about ranked lists that

249
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:46,920
actually, like, mean nothing
but.

250
00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,400
Yeah, it's really fun to.
Just, like, argue with people

251
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,800
about what's the best of
whatever list you're making, you

252
00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:53,800
know?
Yeah, yeah.

253
00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,680
Yeah, and we'll, we'll do that a
little bit with a movie draft

254
00:13:59,680 --> 00:14:01,960
we're doing next week to go
along with this.

255
00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:06,680
But cool.
But but the movie we we should

256
00:14:06,680 --> 00:14:09,120
jump in.
I'm glad you explained.

257
00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:11,800
Come and see because I just like
mentioned it and didn't explain

258
00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:13,320
at all what it was.
So that's good.

259
00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:15,080
Yeah, no happy.
To thank.

260
00:14:15,560 --> 00:14:16,800
You for mentioning it, I
appreciate that.

261
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,600
But yeah, go go check out again
Elijah davidson.com.

262
00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:25,800
But now we're going to jump
right in to to Bridge of Spies.

263
00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:28,360
Elijah mentioned that he was
going to try to get some

264
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:33,160
sniffles ready for this podcast
in a e-mail, but I haven't heard

265
00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,480
any sniffles yet.
So pretty healthy.

266
00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:36,840
Pretty healthy.
That's that's good.

267
00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,120
But.
We should start.

268
00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:44,920
At the beginning.
Like I always like to do and

269
00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:48,040
actually a little bit before the
beginning, we were talking a

270
00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,600
little bit before the podcast
about this kind of run of films

271
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:57,040
that Spielberg is in.
And it's funny because I

272
00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,880
actually kind of wanted to like
start off the conversation with

273
00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:05,960
that a little bit.
So Spielberg has been really

274
00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:12,160
since the kind of Jurassic Park
Schindler's List, what really

275
00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:14,160
like hook Jurassic Park
Schindler's List.

276
00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:19,360
He's been on this run of like 3
films within like 2 years and

277
00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:24,160
then like a three-year break.
And so this movie is actually

278
00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:28,600
coming off of a break after like
a frenzy of projects.

279
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:34,480
So he had 1010 War Horse and
Lincoln where the, the projects

280
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:39,360
that actually like came out, but
he actually had some other

281
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:43,320
projects that like went through
a lot of the process but just

282
00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:48,440
never came out.
One I had, I had never really

283
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,960
heard of either of these, just
because I wasn't plugged in back

284
00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:55,360
around this time to all this
stuff, all these like unrealized

285
00:15:55,360 --> 00:16:00,640
projects that might come out or
might not, but one of them was

286
00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:05,840
this based on this Daniel H
Wilson novel Robo Apocalypse.

287
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:07,560
Which I had never.
Heard of?

288
00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,040
Have you ever heard of this robo
apocalypse?

289
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:11,800
I haven't.
No, Yeah, so.

290
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:16,600
There was this screenplay that
Spielberg was working with from

291
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:21,640
Drew Goddard, who just to name a
few stuff that you might be

292
00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:25,880
familiar with Buffy the Vampire
Slayer, Alias and Lost for TV.

293
00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:30,640
But he also wrote World War Z
and the Martian adaptation, so

294
00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,840
had a little bit of sci-fi
adaptation experience there.

295
00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,560
But it was set for release in
July 2013.

296
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:42,240
At one point it was postponed to
April 2014.

297
00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:46,000
They had Chris Hemsworth on
board, I think, as the lead, and

298
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,280
Anne Hathaway was signed on Ben
Wishaw.

299
00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:55,040
So some some honestly, some
actors that I would love to see

300
00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,120
work with Spielberg.
Yeah.

301
00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:03,880
They had Guy Hendrix Dyas on
board for production design who

302
00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:07,000
who had worked with Spielberg on
King of the Crystal Skull.

303
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:12,160
But it's probably most famous
for his work on Inception, which

304
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,800
we did, you know, a little bit
of call back.

305
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:17,400
We did an episode together for
that.

306
00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:20,599
Yeah, this.
Huge.

307
00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:25,760
It was supposed to be this huge,
like $200 million project and

308
00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,160
just it was just one of those
things where Spielberg just

309
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,400
never felt right about it and
ended up just shelving it.

310
00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:37,520
So we'll never see the Spielberg
ro apocalypse movie, I think.

311
00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:42,760
I think at one point it got
moved over to Michael Bay, which

312
00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:46,160
I would have been way less
interested in seeing, to be

313
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:47,640
honest.
Yeah, they're friends.

314
00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,080
I I I Yeah, yeah.
Transformers.

315
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,680
Yeah, there.
Is Spielberg, you know, produce

316
00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:56,640
Transformers and stuff like I, I
can see.

317
00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,640
I've always found that curious,
that they're friends, that

318
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,520
there's that there's affinity
there because there's so much

319
00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:03,880
about them that seems so
different.

320
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,800
And I remember reading one time
about Spielberg telling Michael

321
00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,960
Bay, like, you shouldn't do any
Transformer sequels, you'll get

322
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,880
stuck doing these forever.
And like Michael Bay, like, I

323
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:15,880
didn't really listen.
I should have.

324
00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:20,640
Yeah, that's funny.
I can see it at that time too,

325
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:25,600
like that was that was like high
like Michael Bay working with

326
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:27,560
the Miss Boberg time.
So I can see how that would make

327
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:29,160
it passed over.
Yeah, yeah.

328
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:34,120
For sure I do Michael Bay.
I do want to see that movie

329
00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:36,720
Ambulance that came out a few
years ago.

330
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,880
I've heard.
Decent things about that so, but

331
00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:44,320
never seen it.
Another unrealized project was

332
00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:48,000
called It's What I Do.
It was supposed to be an

333
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:52,200
adaptation of a Lindsay Addario
memoir and it was supposed to be

334
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:57,480
starring Jennifer Lawrence.
So Dario was, I don't know

335
00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:02,080
anything about this person or
this project other than she was

336
00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:07,400
a photojournalist.
It was going to be a women

337
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:11,360
focused film, which we kind of
talked about, you know, this run

338
00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:15,880
of political movies with The
Post kind of culminating in The

339
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,000
Post, which was a woman focused
film.

340
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,960
So I guess he did eventually do
his woman journalist film.

341
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,640
It just wasn't this one.
Yeah.

342
00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:29,080
But yeah, interesting to see
that he he had something like

343
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,320
the post in the works.
Yeah.

344
00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,280
Before the post.
Got picked up but I saw this.

345
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,280
Too, In doing research about
this movie, that this was one I

346
00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,440
read AI don't remember what
where who was in, but they

347
00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:42,320
mentioned that he was working on
this.

348
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,560
And I I didn't look anymore into
it really, but it it sounded a

349
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:51,280
bit like like Alex Garland's
Civil war, like that's about,

350
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,560
you know, a woman who's a
photojournalist and it it's a

351
00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:58,320
fictional story, obviously, but
I felt like it had some of the

352
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:03,680
same DNA in it made me want to
look up like how long Alice

353
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:06,240
Garland had been working on that
and if there just happened to be

354
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,280
any crossover, you know, there's
always like, yeah, yeah, seems

355
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,240
there are always like similar
projects floating around all the

356
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:12,680
time.
Yeah, yeah.

357
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:14,600
Civil.
War is another one that I'd like

358
00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:20,400
to revisit sometime, but it's it
was interesting, I think.

359
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:23,080
I don't.
I didn't know.

360
00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:27,120
I didn't know fully what to do
with that one, so yeah.

361
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:29,120
I think.
Spielberg would have.

362
00:20:30,120 --> 00:20:32,480
The Spielberg version of that
would have been.

363
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:35,840
A little bit.
I mean, probably a lot

364
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,800
different.
Yeah, I wonder.

365
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:40,320
You know, I wonder he but at the
same.

366
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,760
Time, you know.
You know, there was a lot of,

367
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:49,720
there was a lot of Full Metal
Jacket in that movie.

368
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:54,000
And I mean, you know how much
Spielberg loves Kubrick and

369
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,840
worked with them.
And, you know, I people always

370
00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,920
look at Spielberg as the
sentimentalist, but he has that

371
00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:01,560
mean streak.
Yeah, for sure.

372
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,160
It's kind of fun to think about
what his civil war would look

373
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:05,720
like.
I I mean, he directed.

374
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:07,600
The opening of Saving Private
Ryan.

375
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:09,160
He's yeah.
Yeah.

376
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:10,720
So it's not always.
Sentimental.

377
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:11,680
That's right.
So.

378
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:12,720
I like.
I wonder like.

379
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:15,560
It may have been it.
May have been something similar,

380
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,360
you know, I don't know.
Interesting.

381
00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:19,200
Interesting.
To imagine.

382
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:21,080
Yeah, for.
Sure.

383
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,960
Yeah.
And he so Spielberg kind of

384
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,000
talks about this time he was, he
kind of said, you know,

385
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:32,560
obviously he's he's had many
like films that he's dropped

386
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:37,440
during this time.
He he says there are no rules or

387
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,520
set patterns.
There are times when a project

388
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,360
keeps me awake enough nights in
a row that I end up making it

389
00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:47,760
just to get some sleep.
So some projects, I guess keep

390
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,280
him awake long enough where he
drops him and somewhere he just

391
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:56,080
makes them.
But he's also been what I, what

392
00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:00,720
I thought was cool was just
realizing like, or, or just

393
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:05,360
sometimes we forget that
directors, these like directors

394
00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:08,240
and actors are like actual
people with families at home and

395
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,400
stuff.
And, and it, when you think of

396
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,600
it in that light, it makes total
sense that he was taking these

397
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:18,200
like obviously he's working as a
producer and stuff still in

398
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,520
those those off years, but
that's, that's way less

399
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:26,440
intensive work than being on a
movie set And so getting a lot

400
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:30,280
of years with his family in
there.

401
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:34,400
So but at this point he
mentioned that his youngest

402
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:42,080
child which they had 7 both
biological and adopted children,

403
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:44,640
his youngest was starting
college.

404
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,320
So now he's like empty nest.
I'm I'm getting back to work so.

405
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,120
So that's kind.
Of what he's he's coming out of

406
00:22:52,120 --> 00:22:55,120
that season of having the family
at home.

407
00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:00,160
And it's I, I think that we
maybe that might come up a

408
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,120
little bit with just kind of the
content of this movie.

409
00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:07,680
And there's a little bit of,
there's definitely the dad stuff

410
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:13,440
in there that might come up as
we dig into it a bit more.

411
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:21,160
But that's where Spielberg is.
But as, as we know, like

412
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:26,760
Spielberg a lot of times gets
he's, I mean, he's a, he's a

413
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,720
movie mogul now.
So a lot of projects that he

414
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:34,880
ends up doing at this point are
projects that come to him, not

415
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,240
always projects that he like
thinks of himself.

416
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,480
So this this movie actually
started with a young English

417
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:46,120
playwright named Matt Sharman.
He pitched the idea to

418
00:23:46,120 --> 00:23:51,440
DreamWorks, which he had found.
He had kind of found after this

419
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,240
like Bunny trail of research he
did.

420
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:55,960
He.
He.

421
00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:02,800
Discovered this Donovan guy that
was a lawyer in this footnote of

422
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:07,760
a JFK biography he was reading
where it talked about, you know,

423
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,360
JFK sending him to negotiate
with the Bay of Pigs situation

424
00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:14,960
and coming away with not it's
kind of that that ending title

425
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:19,920
card at the end where he goes in
to try to get 1000 people and

426
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,040
ends up getting 9000.
So he's like, well that's

427
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,320
interesting.
Let me let me read more about

428
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,960
this guy.
Then he finds out that Donovan

429
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,440
was connected in the movie
industry.

430
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,440
He had worked with John Ford and
George George Stevens on this

431
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,680
one hour documentary about the
death camps in in Germany and

432
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,240
Poland.
He was credited as the the legal

433
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,440
supervision on those.
Yeah.

434
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:46,600
And.
Spielberg said.

435
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:51,040
That was like the most graphic
Holocaust footage that anyone's

436
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,560
ever shown and that it was only
shown at the trials, Right?

437
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,640
Yeah.
And then not shown after that.

438
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,280
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.

439
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:05,480
And so he did.
But he also, I think, did some

440
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,040
legal work at the trials as
well, right?

441
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:12,800
Yeah, he's a lawyer.
And so, yeah, so he, he's

442
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,640
digging into this guy and
eventually he comes across this

443
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:20,480
kind of able able powers
exchange story connected to

444
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,520
Donovan.
And that's what he ends up

445
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,160
latching onto and starting to
build this story out.

446
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,120
So it's interesting that he went
through like all that other

447
00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:32,920
stuff and like finally came down
to this one.

448
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,400
And that's the one where he was
like, this is the story.

449
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,160
This is the story.
Yeah, it is I.

450
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,040
Mean it.
It's it's funny because you

451
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,480
would think like, oh,
negotiating big pigs and getting

452
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,840
all that.
There's a movie you know or even

453
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:47,920
like.
Testifying at the Nuremberg

454
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,040
trials and, you know, working
with John Ford, you know there's

455
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,400
a movie.
Or yeah, for sure, yeah.

456
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:55,320
But no, it goes.
Down to this one.

457
00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,480
And of course this story, when
it comes across the DreamWorks

458
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:06,720
desk, it appeals to Spielberg.
Anytime something that like

459
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,200
connects to his childhood in
some way comes across his desk,

460
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,320
he's like, oh this is mine.
Yeah, and this.

461
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:20,280
Is, I mean, his dad was his dad
went to the Soviet Union as a

462
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,240
part of a engineer exchange that
they did.

463
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:31,960
And so his dad was over there
and like saw the YouTube plane

464
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:38,160
and the pilot suit of powers
displayed as kind of like this

465
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,200
is what they're doing.
He was like harassed by some

466
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:46,520
German soldiers at one point
when because he he had an

467
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:50,600
American passport and they're
like, look what your country's

468
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,360
doing to us and stuff.
And so his dad came back telling

469
00:26:53,360 --> 00:26:57,320
him those stories.
But also, Steven Spielberg just

470
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:04,720
grew up in that Cold War era.
So he was near a military base

471
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:06,880
in Phoenix when they moved there
in 57.

472
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,960
Like the height of the Cold War,
You know, paranoia.

473
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:14,560
He.
He.

474
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:20,360
Even said that like I read that
he as a kid had looked at like

475
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:24,800
how the blast radius was and
determined that his house would

476
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:29,000
get blown up if they bombed that
military base near Phoenix.

477
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,880
Just like he.
He was a very anxious kid.

478
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,320
Spielberg.
Which he he talks about a lot.

479
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,400
And so that the whole like
filling the bathtub with water.

480
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,560
He did that as a kid.
At one point his dad came home

481
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,840
and the the tub was filled with
water and he was, you know,

482
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,120
telling him, you know, we've got
to be ready or whatever.

483
00:27:50,120 --> 00:27:53,440
So all of that, like all of
those Spielberg childhood

484
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:57,840
anxieties, Matt Sharman ends up
like working into the script as

485
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,840
we see.
And it's fun to see him like.

486
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:06,200
It's fun to see him tackling
like that Cold War thing like

487
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:12,880
very directly and to to center
it so much on like a normal guy

488
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:17,920
and like a pretty normal family,
because I feel like like the

489
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,680
Cold War like hangs over a lot
of his movies going back.

490
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,680
I mean, going back so far.
I mean, like you could, you

491
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,960
could say like there's, there's
like Cold War kind of anxiety

492
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,320
stuff like built into close
encounters, you know, like, like

493
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:37,920
it's definitely in there or ET,
you know, the way that the way

494
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,160
the government operates ET feels
very Cold War ish.

495
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,360
And then it you know, it can be
a little bit more explicit in

496
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:52,960
things like in something like
like Munich or king crystals,

497
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,800
crystal skull, you know,
explicit Cold War stuff in it.

498
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,440
But it but you know, it, but it,
this is like very much like

499
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,760
we're going to make a spy movie.
We're going to make a good old

500
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:03,240
spy movie and do it
straightforward.

501
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,480
I think that's cool to do
explicitly.

502
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:11,240
I think there's an aspect of all
of these these, I call them

503
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:15,080
social conscience movies that he
that he makes here in a row here

504
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:20,960
with Lincoln Bridges, Spies and
the Post where they they are a

505
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,400
bit they are a bit more like on
the nose and explicit about what

506
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,480
they're about.
They're a little almost preachy,

507
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,760
but it kind of feels like your,
your uncle like telling you what

508
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,880
matters, you know, sitting you
down over over over a holiday

509
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,080
and telling you what matters in
the world.

510
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,000
And so I think it's OK that it's
a little bit more like directly

511
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,360
Cold War.
We're doing this thing.

512
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,120
Yeah, kind of thing.
Yeah, for sure.

513
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,520
Yeah.
And Munich was that too.

514
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:53,800
And I would, I would say
Warhorse is equally like along

515
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,800
the same line like it's not as.
I don't know, I.

516
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:03,240
Mean it's it's it's still
political it's a war it's it's

517
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,760
light hearted in moments but
also very serious in moments and

518
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:11,960
and definitely has like a very
direct message about what we

519
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,480
should take away from that
historical event through the

520
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,680
eyes of that horse and so yeah
yeah I mean he's really on a

521
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,000
roll with with this sort of
stuff and.

522
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,480
Yeah, it.
Is it's interesting to see him

523
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:33,920
using like his just like cachet
with society, like his the the

524
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,040
pool.
He has to really like lean into

525
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,000
messages he thinks are
important.

526
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,040
Yeah.
It it's funny, like, you know,

527
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,600
there's I was thinking about
this when you're talking about

528
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,560
like this stage of his career
where he's, you know, things are

529
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,080
coming across his desk and he's
trying to decide what he wants

530
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,760
to do.
And there's a lot more projects

531
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,880
where he's where he like talks
about doing them or they rumored

532
00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:59,240
that he's going to do it, but he
didn't do it.

533
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,080
I'm like that's kind of more
common in this part of his

534
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,680
career.
And it feels like to me there

535
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,440
was an early part of his career
where he just wanted to make,

536
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:08,160
there were movies he wanted to
make.

537
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,760
He wouldn't make any movie he
could, but he was just like

538
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,840
happy to just do a lot of stuff.
And then there becomes a point

539
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:15,600
in the middle of his career
where it feels like he's making

540
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,560
them now.
He has like all the cachet to do

541
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,920
it every once.
Now he's going to make the

542
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,480
movies that really matter to
him, you know, like really,

543
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,960
really matter.
And then and then we get like, I

544
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:29,960
was trying to decide where I
think the line is.

545
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,360
I think it's somewhere,
somewhere around like AI, like

546
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:38,840
say in private ride and AI.
And kind of after that, it feels

547
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:43,000
like he's being a little bit
more like responsive, a little

548
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,680
more searching, a little more
like, Oh yeah, let's try this

549
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:47,040
now.
Oh, let's try this now, let's do

550
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,520
this now.
And there's a little more apt

551
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:51,400
to.
Experiment.

552
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,840
A bit and then but they're but
all these movies, I mean, I

553
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,960
would say really from like
minority report on through they

554
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:05,200
have a they have a moral weight
to them where it's it's like

555
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,160
he's trying to do something.
Useful and.

556
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:12,280
Good for the world.
Yeah.

557
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,360
It feels like a bit like, like
the Lost world was, the Lost

558
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,080
World was the last one where he
was like, OK, I'm just doing it

559
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,400
because I have to do it.
And then after that, like all

560
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,760
these movies have a purpose.
Yeah, for sure.

561
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:24,040
Yeah.
Well, I.

562
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,720
Think I think like.
All the way up.

563
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,440
Until Schindler's List, he just
like he was, he was taken

564
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:36,320
seriously as a filmmaker, but
not as serious, not seriously as

565
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:42,520
like like an artist with a
capital AI guess you know which

566
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,600
you know, I think me and you
would both say is like.

567
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,640
A little bit.
Like, ridiculous that he had to

568
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,880
like that he had to endure that
criticism, but I mean criticism.

569
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,120
Is criticism and.
You know he's yeah when you.

570
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,840
When you break Hollywood by
making, you know, Raiders and

571
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,560
Jaws and Jurassic Park.
Yeah, Jurassic.

572
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,440
Park eventually.
But yeah, I mean that there's

573
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:06,760
some self criticism going on in
there.

574
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,560
But like when you, when you
break, when you break New

575
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:13,200
Hollywood and create the
blockbuster and you're going to

576
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,880
get a lot of people who aren't
going to look at you as anything

577
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,440
other than someone who makes
theme park rides and sells toys.

578
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:20,600
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And.

579
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,240
So I think when when he made
Schindler's List and proved

580
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,760
like, no, no, I can do this too.
Yeah, I think proved.

581
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,560
Proved.
To like the world, but I think

582
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:37,480
especially like proved to
himself because, you know, as

583
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:41,760
much as like we would, we would
like to say like artists like

584
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,200
Spielberg, like just make it for
the art.

585
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:49,280
Like he like he puts a lot of
weight in what people think of

586
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:51,600
his work.
It really does.

587
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:52,720
And I don't think there's
anything.

588
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,520
Wrong with that, I think, I
think we, I think a lot of the

589
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,840
great Spielberg movies we get
are because he is, he does have

590
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,120
his audience so, so heavily on
his mind.

591
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,640
And so, you know, there's space
for those sorts of artists, too.

592
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:09,760
But yeah, it's been kind.
Of fun to figure out like

593
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,679
because he obviously cares and
he'll like he's one of those

594
00:34:12,679 --> 00:34:14,800
directors who will say like, Oh
yeah, I screwed that up.

595
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,440
Like he'll talk about Hook and
say that Hook's not very good.

596
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:22,239
He's kind of responding to like
audience like feedback on that,

597
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,280
you know, or he'll he'll say Oh
yeah, I shouldn't have changed

598
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:26,880
the guns in ET and he'll fix it
back.

599
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,080
You know, could be more upset
about it, but I've noticed that

600
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:33,000
he doesn't, He doesn't really
listen to, like, critics.

601
00:34:33,199 --> 00:34:36,679
Yeah, or whatever.
He listens to people, like,

602
00:34:36,679 --> 00:34:40,639
actual fans of the movies and
like, has it has it is seems to

603
00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:44,360
be very good at figuring out
what people really think about

604
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:45,280
his films.
Yeah.

605
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:47,880
No, all film makers are like
that.

606
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:49,719
They can't separate the things.
Yeah.

607
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,400
It's cool, yeah.
I think it is cool and I think I

608
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:58,600
think with that Schindler's List
kind of like proving himself to,

609
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,240
you know, the critics and to
himself.

610
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:07,000
I think at that point, like you
said, he he did, he did do like

611
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,920
the lost World is kind of like
you could probably say is the

612
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,120
last like one.
But I mean, all the ones after

613
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:18,920
that have some sort of like even
the fun ones had like War of the

614
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:20,040
Worlds.
Yeah.

615
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:24,520
I mean, it's very much like a a
9/11 coded movie and absolutely.

616
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,520
You know and.
So even like the fun ones like

617
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:29,400
War of the World still have that
ready.

618
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,240
Player 1, there's one that's
like you could say it's like

619
00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:33,800
light and nothing.
Yeah sure.

620
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:38,080
But there's like a whole self
criticism thing going on about

621
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:42,320
that movie or maybe even a The
BFG is maybe the only one.

622
00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:47,320
Yeah, Tintin.
Tintin, I think, has no message.

623
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,240
It's just a fun movie, It's so.
Complicated Tin tin.

624
00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:52,760
'S so complicated though, right,
because like on one level he was

625
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,080
never supposed to direct it sure
and it was just kind of a

626
00:35:56,080 --> 00:36:00,320
complicated production that's I
feel like radio player 1's the

627
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,800
same way you know like he's he
ended up doing it because he was

628
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,280
like well I don't want anybody
else to do it you know and it's

629
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,560
like Bobs and Meccas can't do
it.

630
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,440
I guess I'll do it you know like
I only messed and messed this up

631
00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:14,920
because like the other version
of this that somebody else does

632
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:19,080
is really crap so I might as
well be the one you know for

633
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,440
sure fixes things that are wrong
with the book and stuff like

634
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,080
that.
So anyway, every once in a while

635
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:25,800
there feels like 1 where he's
like OK fine.

636
00:36:27,720 --> 00:36:29,960
I think with.
Tintin, he wanted to, he wanted

637
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,520
to play with the technology as
makes anything else.

638
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:33,920
Yeah, yeah.
And.

639
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,760
Yeah, and Riley, so we you know,
I we talked about that a lot on

640
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:42,800
that episode and it was one of
those, if you haven't listened

641
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,520
to that one, it was a it was a
good one because I had some like

642
00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:49,920
I didn't go for Tintin all in.
It was a bit.

643
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,040
It was.
Part of that is.

644
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,040
Maybe because I'm doing this
series where I'm like so focused

645
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,560
in on Spielberg and like, Tintin
to me was just like watching

646
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,640
Spielberg, like play.
With a new.

647
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,000
Thing which is which you.
Can which is.

648
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,280
You should which is.
Fun but like it ends up being

649
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,360
like very distracting for me as
like very.

650
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,760
Distracting.
Yeah, but.

651
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,960
My guest, Daniel, how it like,
really like, loved it.

652
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:21,560
And he was like, yeah.
Yeah, I loved.

653
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,240
Watching Spielberg play.
And so that's a fun one to

654
00:37:24,240 --> 00:37:27,480
listen to because we have like,
we have like the same take but

655
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:29,680
totally different perspectives.
Yeah.

656
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:31,960
It's a.
It's a.

657
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:33,920
Weird movie.
Like I, I enjoy watching him

658
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,560
play for sure, for sure.
But that's one where you're

659
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,080
like, who?
I mean, it's kind of like if

660
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,800
it's like if Superman just
decided to let loose and do

661
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,040
whatever the heck he wanted, you
know, it's like, whoa, dude, you

662
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:50,240
got to check your powers because
you're Superman and that's not

663
00:37:50,240 --> 00:37:51,440
good.
And that's kind of what what

664
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:52,800
watching Tintin feels like to
me.

665
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:56,360
It's like, whoa, Spielberg, you
could do a little too much.

666
00:37:56,720 --> 00:37:58,280
Why don't you just check
yourself a little bit?

667
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:01,880
Oh, man.
But yeah, he does play.

668
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:03,160
He does.
Play though, and I feel like a

669
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,400
lot of these movies are him
playing in different ways or

670
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,840
just trying stuff out.
Like he, you know, almost like

671
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,520
it feels like he takes some of
these projects because it would

672
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:12,960
be fun to figure out how to do
them.

673
00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:17,640
And yeah, we'll talk about that
with Bridge of Spies, because

674
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,000
there's a a big part of why I
like Bridge of Spies is I feel

675
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,600
like you can feel him.
Figuring it.

676
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:29,400
Out as he goes along, there's a
kind of a, there's a like a, a

677
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,640
wet clay aspect to Bridge of
Spies.

678
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:33,560
Yeah.
That I don't feel a lot of his

679
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:34,880
movies that are a whole lot
more.

680
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:39,040
You can tell they're much more
planned out and, you know, we'll

681
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:40,200
get to that.
But yeah.

682
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,360
Yeah, and I.
I think this one is.

683
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,840
This one it.
Feels it's been a while since

684
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,160
I've seen Lincoln and I that
episode of Lincoln will have

685
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,480
already been out at this point,
but I'm actually recording it

686
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,440
after this so I'll be revisiting
it soon.

687
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:02,960
So I don't you know, I'll I'll
this opinion might be like

688
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,480
reversed after I revisit that,
but.

689
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,480
This.
Feels like one of his just most

690
00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:10,720
and.
And this.

691
00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:14,920
Is just how it how it turns out
like the end product, you know,

692
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,240
setting aside what he does along
the way, but it feels like one

693
00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:20,960
of his most just like a
classical.

694
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:25,920
Oh yeah, straightforward story.
You know, you go, you go

695
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,360
straight through.
There's not anything like super

696
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,120
flashy.
Like even the Kaminsky

697
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,920
cinematography is just like just
right on the line.

698
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,640
Like it doesn't cross the over
stylized line.

699
00:39:38,720 --> 00:39:41,520
They're really, they're really
like, he's really like holding

700
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:43,400
the reins in on this one.
It feels like.

701
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,960
Yeah, he's very, I mean.
He's working in that like, like

702
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,680
John Houston most, you know,
like he's definitely trying to

703
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,520
do the he's trying to make the
kind of movie he would have

704
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:54,200
loved watching when he was a
kid.

705
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,160
Yes.
And there's only like 1 the one

706
00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,960
the only sequence that kind of
deviates from that is the actual

707
00:39:59,960 --> 00:40:03,320
YouTube crash.
Sure, which is full of all the

708
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:07,480
things you can do now, you know,
and but even though that's it's

709
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:08,800
OK to have one sequence like
that.

710
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:10,920
Yeah, that's when the rest
enjoyed that sequence.

711
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:12,720
I thought it.
Was great, well made, yeah.

712
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:17,080
But yeah, this is like, yeah, I
like that you said that, that

713
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,160
this is like a movie he would
love to watch as a kid.

714
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:27,080
I think this is like the the
great version of Always which is

715
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,600
the other movie he made that he
would have loved to watch as a

716
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,880
kid and Always just doesn't work
for me.

717
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:34,520
It's weird.
It's a weird.

718
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:38,400
Movie Yeah yeah, I even watch
how unlikable Richard Dreyfuss

719
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,080
can be.
I even.

720
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,960
Watched like the original 1 and
that didn't help at all.

721
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:47,880
And yeah.
What a strange.

722
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,480
Movie that one is I like his
weird movie though, like I I

723
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:55,120
mean it it was funny you know I.
My wife and I.

724
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:57,080
I just, I don't know, I get this
like.

725
00:40:58,080 --> 00:40:59,920
Into.
It itches intuition.

726
00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:01,240
I don't know where.
I just like have to watch a

727
00:41:01,240 --> 00:41:02,440
movie.
I don't really know why.

728
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:06,200
And it was a few months ago and
I, I just like, I don't know, I

729
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,360
got to watch bridge Spies first,
watch Bridge Spies tonight, Just

730
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,000
turn Bridge Spies on.
I had no idea why.

731
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:16,880
And I as I was watching it, I
was like, I wonder if Eli's

732
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,600
done.
I got to find out and the

733
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,000
message was like, if you do
this, I want to do this movie,

734
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,520
which is so weird because it's
not like my favorite of his

735
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,280
movies.
Like even as this has been

736
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,840
coming up, I'm like, part of me
is like, I should have, I should

737
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:31,600
have said Lincoln because I love
Lincoln.

738
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,840
Like I love Lincoln so much.
Like it's like top tier

739
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:40,040
Spielberg for me.
And I've done like tons of

740
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,640
research on Lincoln and written
like lots of things on Lincoln

741
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,400
and all this stuff, whole
presentations on Lincoln and all

742
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,080
this whatever.
But but I don't know, Bridges

743
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,880
spies is a little bit more fun
to talk about for me, kind of

744
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,400
for the same reason I feel like
it was fun for Spielberg to make

745
00:41:53,760 --> 00:42:01,520
because it it just is.
It just is more it's not a rough

746
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:02,560
draft.
There's nothing rough draft

747
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:06,200
about this movie at all, But
it's more just kind of off the

748
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:11,200
cuff and looser in a way than
what I feel like a lot of his

749
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:12,320
movies are.
I'm I'm.

750
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:14,880
Skipping way ahead in the notes,
but I think this is relevant.

751
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,160
I wrote down this quote.
This is.

752
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:23,400
It's not a quote, it's more of
like a summarization of.

753
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:27,000
So Molly Haskell is one of the
has one of the books that I've

754
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:31,280
been like reading through as and
this is actually the last movie

755
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:33,480
covered in that book in the.
Book.

756
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,200
So I won't have that going
forward, unfortunately, because

757
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:39,760
she has some very, like,
interesting perspectives from

758
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,720
like, kind of a feminist
worldview on Spielberg.

759
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:49,560
But she had noted A Manola
Dargis review at the time that

760
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:53,800
found, she said in her review
that this movie was less

761
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:58,080
weighted down by a created
history or a sense of duty to

762
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,600
its significance than Lincoln or
Munich.

763
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,200
Yeah.
And I think that matches totally

764
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:04,880
what you're saying.
Absolutely.

765
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,920
Yeah, I mean, even Spielberg
says doesn't say it's a true

766
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,520
story.
Like they don't put that on on

767
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:11,600
it.
Like they just kind of like,

768
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,200
yeah, because they he said.
It took so many liberties.

769
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,200
Take as many.
Liberties as we do that we don't

770
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,720
consider it a true story, even
though it's, I mean, pretty

771
00:43:18,720 --> 00:43:20,600
accurate.
It is, yeah.

772
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:22,800
Like the the.
Example he gave in.

773
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:27,280
So there's like a, I think it's
actually the first episode of

774
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:32,240
the director's cut, which is
like the DGA podcasts where they

775
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,680
they record like film makers
having conversations about their

776
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:37,200
films.
I don't know if you've ever

777
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:41,480
listened to that, but it's, I
think it was the first episode

778
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,640
of that.
That podcast feed was Bridge of

779
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:48,120
Spies, but it was Scorsese and
Spielberg talking about this

780
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:49,000
movie.
I.

781
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,640
Have watched that video.
Yeah, it's it's an amazing

782
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:53,600
conversation.
It is fun to watch those guys

783
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:54,720
talk.
It's great.

784
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:59,000
Yeah, but and I think in that he
was talking about like, you

785
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,440
know, we didn't put true story,
but like most of it is like true

786
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,960
with just like I tweaked it for
dramatic effect, you know, and

787
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:10,320
the example he gave was the the
shooting the house scene.

788
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:12,160
The window?
Yeah, like.

789
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,800
At that point in Donovan's real
life, they had actually moved

790
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,920
into an apartment.
Yeah, when the house was shot

791
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:20,440
at.
He wasn't even living there at

792
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,320
the time in it.
Yeah, they weren't in.

793
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,080
It and then there was only like
1 bullet that went through the

794
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:29,080
window and spill was like you
know, I had I put it up to like

795
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,920
5 bullets through the window and
Scorsese was like well I would

796
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:36,840
have done way more than that.
So it's like.

797
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,320
Liberties like that like for.
Dramatic.

798
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:41,760
Effect he felt like it was
important to show.

799
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:48,720
You know, it was, I think this
too, like shows like just the

800
00:44:48,720 --> 00:44:53,520
importance of Spielberg and his
like, collaborative crew at the

801
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:58,720
time because originally there
was a lot more family scenes in

802
00:44:58,720 --> 00:45:00,720
the movie.
That.

803
00:45:00,720 --> 00:45:04,240
Ended up having to get cut out.
Spielberg, you know, he just

804
00:45:04,240 --> 00:45:07,920
talks about, you know, you, you
kind of learn even all these

805
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:11,720
great scenes that we filmed with
the family, like they just don't

806
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:14,800
push the story forward in the
way that you want it to.

807
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:19,960
But this is like the one, the
one like big family scene along

808
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,120
with like the little dinner
table one.

809
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,920
Yeah.
That does enough like in that in

810
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:30,520
that short, quick moment to to
build that family relationship

811
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:34,480
the way it needed to be built.
So yeah, it's just it's just

812
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:38,640
kind of like the the wisdom at
this point of his career of

813
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:43,080
knowing like how to work with
work with Michael Kahn to edit,

814
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,360
edit out what needs to be there
and what what doesn't.

815
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:51,200
And yeah, so I've got.
I wonder if this is the time for

816
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:52,880
this or not.
I'm going to tell you there's

817
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:54,640
something I do want to talk
about with this movie and I it

818
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:56,160
maybe should come up later.
I'm.

819
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:58,840
Going to tell you what.
It is and you try to hold it.

820
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:00,840
It should come up later in the
next ministry.

821
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:07,840
So I, I have a theory of what
exactly it was about this story

822
00:46:08,240 --> 00:46:11,720
that drew Spielberg to it,
beyond the fact that his dad saw

823
00:46:11,720 --> 00:46:14,880
the YouTube play.
Like I, I, I have AI have a

824
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:16,760
little theory.
I, I have no, it's just my own

825
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,280
little theory.
As far as I know, he's never

826
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:24,600
said this thing that I'm going
to say or commented on this

827
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:26,960
aspect of the story.
So.

828
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,720
Let's hold.
It let's hold it, OK Yeah, let's

829
00:46:31,720 --> 00:46:33,280
hold.
It cuz I think that'll be

830
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:37,480
interesting yeah.
As we dig into like our thoughts

831
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:43,600
on the movie, let's let's along
with talking about Michael Kahn,

832
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:45,520
let's like talk through the
crew.

833
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:47,520
Cool.
Real quick.

834
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:55,040
So we you know, Spielberg
produced it with I think I can't

835
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:57,400
remember if he's produced with
Mark Platt before, but I

836
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:01,920
recognize that name.
Christy Christy Mccasko Krieger

837
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:06,320
didn't recognize her name, but
she was all up in the special

838
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:08,800
features.
I bet she's the German producer

839
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,760
because this was a Co production
and they filmed a lot in

840
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:13,560
Germany.
She didn't have a German.

841
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,960
Accent though in the Oh really?
Yeah, not at all.

842
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:18,800
And they?
Hired a bunch of like, German

843
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:20,280
crew when they shot over there.
Yeah, they did.

844
00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:22,240
Yeah.
Yeah.

845
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:23,040
Who knows?
Yeah.

846
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:25,840
You had to be somebody, though.
Yeah, I.

847
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:30,560
Didn't I just, I forgot to click
on her little letterbox profile

848
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:34,600
to see what else she's produced,
But she might be important.

849
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,280
I just, I didn't recognize her
name at all.

850
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,200
Screenplay is where it gets
interesting.

851
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,720
You have Matt Charman, who we
talked about already found the

852
00:47:44,720 --> 00:47:50,360
story, wrote the script, pitched
it to DreamWorks, but at once

853
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:55,440
the script was completed.
It must have been Mark Platt's

854
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,920
kind of like idea because he's
the one that talks about it in

855
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:02,880
the special features.
They sent it to the Coen

856
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:06,240
brothers.
So Joe and Ethan Coen have a

857
00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:11,480
pass at the script and.
I think you.

858
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:15,240
Know I think it's one of those
things where like they we'll

859
00:48:15,240 --> 00:48:17,960
talk about with the script I
think it's Matt Sharman's script

860
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:20,560
yeah I think so too yeah so
from.

861
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:24,200
What I can tell just from like?
What's what I've heard in

862
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,960
Spielberg interviews and just
from like the reading I've done,

863
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:32,120
the Cohens really like just like
tweaked up and tailored and like

864
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:34,160
perfected the dialogue
sequences.

865
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:40,640
So especially like the
negotiations anytime like the

866
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:44,680
anytime there's like those those
quick exchanges with Hanks and

867
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:48,680
someone that's like that's where
you feel the Cohens come

868
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:49,680
through.
Yeah.

869
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:54,360
It's like the whole like.
Your guy, my guy.

870
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:57,720
Like Spielberg explicitly said
that was Co the Cohens.

871
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:00,400
It feels like the Cohens it
does.

872
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:02,480
Yeah.
And then the whole like.

873
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:04,680
The whole stands out a little
bit A.

874
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,680
Little bit honestly, the thing
that stood out to me that I was

875
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,640
like this.
Is 100% Cohens is when he gets

876
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:14,360
to East Germany and you have
like the fake family there.

877
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:18,160
Yeah, I was like, this is Cohens
all the way for sure.

878
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:22,200
Yeah.
It is kind of funny I.

879
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:25,520
Started feeling bad for Matt
Sharman when I was reading about

880
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,080
the movie cuz I was like, this
is really his thing.

881
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:30,720
It is really his thing.
And everyone is talking about

882
00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:33,920
the Cohens all the time, and
they kind of stand out.

883
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:37,560
And I'm not sure.
I think, I think Tom Hanks,

884
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,600
who's worked with them before,
kind of knows their their thing.

885
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:42,520
And then Mark Riley, it seems
that he can do anything.

886
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:44,680
Yeah.
You know, it just kind of like

887
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:47,720
it ends up working because they
can do it, you know?

888
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:50,240
And I don't even know that they
really wrote.

889
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:52,520
I don't.
It seemed, from what I can tell,

890
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:57,320
like we'll never know exactly
what what they did, but it seems

891
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:00,480
to me that they weren't really
doing any a whole lot with the

892
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:03,760
able scenes, right?
Yeah, I think they were.

893
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:05,800
Trying to help.
The negotiation thing.

894
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:09,640
Yeah, makes sense and and the
other thing that like they.

895
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:14,280
That you that you'll read and
hear Spielberg say is that they

896
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:18,360
kind of like took the Donovan.
Character.

897
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:23,760
And infused it with more of Tom
Hanks personality, which if

898
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:27,000
that's something they did, I
think that is a really big part

899
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,680
of the movie because at one
point I was watching this movie

900
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:33,480
and I told my wife after because
she's a huge, huge, you've got

901
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:35,720
male fan.
I was like, this is Joe Fox.

902
00:50:35,720 --> 00:50:40,160
Like, yeah, just just a little
older and as a lawyer, you know,

903
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,480
as a lawyer.
But it's totally like you, you I

904
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:45,080
felt Joe Fox is probably a
lawyer.

905
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:45,960
Let's be.
Let's be real.

906
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:49,600
He's probably a lawyer.
Yeah, yeah.

907
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,320
Yeah, I felt that character all
through this.

908
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:57,360
And that character also feels,
like infused with Tom Hanks's

909
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:01,360
personality, you know?
Yeah, yeah, I think it was like

910
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:04,600
that when I got like.
When I had that itch where I had

911
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:07,640
to watch the movie, I think what
I kind of figured out was that

912
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:12,720
it, it was, it was that thing
that I wanted to that I wanted

913
00:51:12,720 --> 00:51:17,840
to like spend some time with,
like his lawyeriness and the way

914
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:22,400
that he, the way that he
negotiated and the way that he

915
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:25,040
like the particular way he was
able to like.

916
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:30,080
It's not just that he's trying
to accomplish what he wants to.

917
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:32,600
Accomplish.
He's trying to let them

918
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:37,240
accomplish what they want to
accomplish as well, and trying

919
00:51:37,240 --> 00:51:39,640
to convince them that the best
way for them to accomplish what

920
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:42,360
they want to accomplish is to
let him accomplish what he wants

921
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:48,120
to accomplish, and trying to
keep all the egos down

922
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:49,960
throughout all of.
That and keep the focus.

923
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:53,280
On the thing that they're doing
and not any way that they might

924
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:57,200
feel about what's going on and
the particular way that he kind

925
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:01,040
of negotiates all of.
That I think that's the thing,

926
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:02,680
that.
I needed, when I needed to watch

927
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:04,360
this movie more than anything
else.

928
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:06,640
I, I, there's, I don't know if
it's just stuff going on in my

929
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:10,200
life where I found myself in
some negotiating positions or

930
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:16,320
just trying to just trying to
like learn how to like be

931
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:23,680
involved in a situation in an
ethical broad, broadly speaking,

932
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:24,920
an ethical.
Way, Yeah.

933
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:29,280
To stay true to yourself
throughout it, but then to like

934
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:32,480
also have that little bit of
distance that he has in those

935
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:36,760
moments of like, we're trying to
accomplish something here.

936
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:38,720
Yeah.
If I could step back a little

937
00:52:38,720 --> 00:52:43,400
bit from this and kind of work
the room, work that work the

938
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:46,320
situation more than the person,
maybe we can get this done.

939
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:49,520
I think that's the thing.
I like that I felt like I needed

940
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:51,320
in that moment and it's all
there.

941
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:53,840
I mean, it's all in the way that
he interact, the way that he

942
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:57,240
talks.
We're definitely jumping around.

943
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:02,200
In the notes, but like one of
the things that I had noted was

944
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:07,080
when you when you pair this,
this character with Lincoln,

945
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:11,320
which I'm sure you'll you'll
being a huge fan of that will be

946
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:17,160
able to speak to you really see
like some of like Spielberg's.

947
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:20,800
Obsession at this.
Time and one of the big ones is

948
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:26,640
like these men like kind of
standing up against all odds and

949
00:53:27,240 --> 00:53:30,560
you know justifying their
actions with their moral values

950
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:36,080
yeah but but but doing it in a
way where they're like adapting

951
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:38,960
the rules of the game because
they know the system is rigged

952
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:41,480
so like you you kind of see that
with.

953
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:44,960
With.
Donovan and this he's he kind of

954
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:49,440
like adapts, like he kind of
figures out OK, like they're not

955
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:52,880
going to let me go through due
process in.

956
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:56,440
A in a.
Legitimate way So like how can I

957
00:53:57,160 --> 00:54:02,160
keep my moral values and do what
I feel like I need to do but

958
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:09,400
play it on their terms?
Which is interesting and I think

959
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:12,760
I don't know it's it's.
I heard.

960
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:17,280
Recently someone talking about
like Ruth Bader Ginsburg and how

961
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:22,560
like when she when she passed
away, like all of the justices

962
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:23,720
that you would think.
Like.

963
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:25,760
Would have hated her, like loved
her.

964
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:30,960
And it's because she operated in
this way where she she she kind

965
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:36,280
of adapted and and, you know,
she stood on her, her morals and

966
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:38,920
what she thought was right and
fought for those things, but did

967
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:43,200
it in a way where she was able
to like, come alongside people

968
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:48,240
and, and befriend them and play
and even like, do do things the

969
00:54:48,240 --> 00:54:52,480
way she wanted, but on their
terms, but still get done what

970
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:55,200
she wanted to get done.
Very interesting.

971
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:56,000
For sure.
Yeah.

972
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:57,840
And you see that with Lincoln,
too.

973
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:03,400
I just got done listening to the
abridged version of Team of

974
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:06,320
Rivals.
Yeah, Super.

975
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:06,920
Super.
Out.

976
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:09,400
I want to.
Eventually listen to the whole

977
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:11,360
thing, but yeah, it's a great
book.

978
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:13,440
It's like 41 hours.
On the audiobook.

979
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:16,040
And yeah, it's a big one.
I didn't have time for that so.

980
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:21,240
But yeah.
Fascinating the way that Lincoln

981
00:55:21,240 --> 00:55:23,280
operated in that that same kind
of way.

982
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:25,160
Like what?
Yeah.

983
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:26,120
It's funny.
You know I.

984
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:30,880
I said I love Lincoln and there
are there are definitely some

985
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:33,160
similarities between, I mean, I
would say all three of these

986
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:37,440
movies, I would include the post
as this other conscience movie

987
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:39,680
in here.
And in all three of these

988
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:43,000
movies, you have someone who's
trying to do what they see is

989
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:47,160
the right thing with a lot of
people around them trying to get

990
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:51,160
them to not do that.
And they're having to be people

991
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:54,480
of moral conviction to see that
through.

992
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:57,200
What what is very different
about all three of these movies,

993
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:01,320
though, is how much power the
person has who is at the center

994
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:04,160
of the the center of the story.
Because Abraham Lincoln,

995
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:06,600
President of the United States,
you know, I mean, it's heavily

996
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:09,200
contested, but he is the
president of the United States

997
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:15,360
and he is, he is willing to use
every, every, he he's willing to

998
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:19,520
turn every dial, use every
lever, anything he can do some

999
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:23,160
of it not maybe the question
will be legal by his own

1000
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:27,520
admission, because the question
is legality of it all anyway.

1001
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:29,640
And so he has to do it to find
out if he can do it or not.

1002
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:32,600
It's probably being president in
his case.

1003
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:36,400
And but he's he.
He.

1004
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:38,800
He's not sure.
Exactly what the rules say, he

1005
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:39,720
can.
Do so he's going to try.

1006
00:56:39,720 --> 00:56:43,840
To do anything he can.
He's a man of great power.

1007
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:46,960
But Donovan's not a man of great
power.

1008
00:56:47,720 --> 00:56:49,240
That's kind of the whole deal
with him.

1009
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:52,920
Like we know when they send him
over to Germany, he is

1010
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:55,680
explicitly not a representative
of the United States government.

1011
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:58,480
He's just a guy.
He's just a guy.

1012
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:00,360
He has no one's going to save
him.

1013
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:02,840
Like he's just going to do this
thing.

1014
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:07,640
He's just a man, just an
American who believes in America

1015
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:09,440
and the things that it stands
for.

1016
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:13,320
And he is someone who can't bend
the rules.

1017
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:16,800
It's very important that he not
bend the rules in the way that

1018
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:20,360
Lincoln does.
He has to, he has to know and

1019
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:23,480
believe what the rules are and
live for them.

1020
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:28,800
Absolutely.
You know, he's he's going to,

1021
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:31,360
he's going to find every way he
can to make the rules work for

1022
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:35,160
him.
But he's he exists in many ways

1023
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:38,280
to like remind people of what
the goodness of the rules

1024
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:42,800
themselves very different and
that way very different than

1025
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:44,520
Lincoln, I think and very
interesting.

1026
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:47,360
Like you with Lincoln.
I think you have a movie where

1027
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:51,840
Spielberg is like looking at
what's.

1028
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:55,080
Going on during the Obama.
Administration and the kind of

1029
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:59,880
divisions that were exacerbated
throughout that time and the way

1030
00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:04,000
that people in leaders in our
country, people in power were

1031
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:06,600
not working together only gotten
worse since then.

1032
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:11,120
But could see then just how
their unwillingness to

1033
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:14,880
compromise, their unwillingness
to work together was just a non

1034
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:17,160
starter.
Like you don't have a country

1035
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:18,680
when you're when you're not
doing that anymore.

1036
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:23,240
And he made a movie that showed
a time that was arguably even

1037
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:27,760
more divided and how people of
courage, Tommy Lee Jones

1038
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:30,560
character, for instance, in that
movie, like how they were

1039
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:35,040
willing to find the conviction
to reach across aisles and to

1040
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:37,680
work together to accomplish
something greater than them.

1041
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:43,120
But now here we have, we have in
this movie, we have a man who is

1042
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:47,160
not no one special.
He ends up doing special things.

1043
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:50,320
He's a gifted negotiator, but
he's just a man with a family

1044
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:52,840
and he has to believe and hold
up.

1045
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:56,560
It's kind of like the Spielberg
saying like, yeah, the leaders

1046
00:58:56,560 --> 00:58:59,000
got to do what they're supposed
to do, but the people have to

1047
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:02,280
believe in this thing as well.
The people have to hold this if

1048
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:04,520
it's ever going to survive,
because the people are the one

1049
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:07,760
who hold the people on the hold
the leaders to hold the hold

1050
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:11,560
them accountable.
They they, we have to be better

1051
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:14,960
than them, you know, like we
have to normal people have to do

1052
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:21,440
it with the Post, which you'll
get to bit of a messier film, I

1053
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:24,960
think.
But it, you know, it's about

1054
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,760
it's about business leaders,
it's about captains of industry.

1055
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:29,440
It has to be journalism in this
case.

1056
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:32,760
But there are others who, you
know, are running that, who are

1057
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:36,240
on the board of that newspaper.
And it's like, what are what are

1058
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:39,200
they owe society and that kind
of power.

1059
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:42,040
So and different positions of
power and how that works out.

1060
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:44,160
Yeah, yeah.
And I think that's like.

1061
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:48,960
I think that is a big thing in
the script is this kind of like

1062
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:55,160
this persona that Tom Hanks is
like leaning into and at this

1063
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:59,720
point of his career of the every
man that I think that I think it

1064
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:01,520
had to be Tom Hanks it.
Couldn't be anybody else.

1065
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:03,360
Right.
And he's not trying to be cool

1066
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:06,360
either in this.
Movie like he's way beyond that

1067
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:10,320
in his in his career and.
It Yeah, and I.

1068
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:16,480
Think, I think that's what like
Drew maybe Charmin to this part

1069
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:21,560
of Donovan's story in
particulars, because at at this

1070
01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:27,360
point he really like, like he
had been, I, I think there's a

1071
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:31,480
degree to which like, OK, the,
this guy wasn't like just a

1072
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:35,240
nobody like he had, he was, he
went to Fordham and Harvard.

1073
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:41,680
He like he, you know, was, he
did some stuff with the

1074
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:45,760
Nuremberg trial.
So like he's he's an attorney,

1075
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:48,440
like that's very well respected
apparently.

1076
01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:54,160
But the way that I think what
attracted Charmin and then

1077
01:00:54,160 --> 01:00:58,160
eventually Spielberg to this is
just that thing like the OK,

1078
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:03,840
what is it about this guy where
he can get way more than he's

1079
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:06,440
ever supposed to in a million
years?

1080
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:10,640
You know, like, you know, that
footnote that Charmin found him

1081
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:14,640
in where like he gets 9000
people when he was sent to get

1082
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:17,480
1000.
It's just like fascinating, like

1083
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:20,000
who is this guy?
I've never even heard of him.

1084
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:27,080
You know, this kind of like blip
in American history that that

1085
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:30,320
did something so big.
And then this is where it all

1086
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:35,600
starts kind of.
And so I, I think that really,

1087
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:40,880
and I think that's like, you
know, the Cohens did did I think

1088
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:45,480
great with the character
personality and the dialogue

1089
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:47,720
sequence they did.
But I think Sharman's script

1090
01:01:47,720 --> 01:01:52,920
really does like is where all
that is found in his, you know,

1091
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:56,280
his script.
So shout out to Sharman.

1092
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:58,320
He he got the.
Short end of the stick with.

1093
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:02,960
The screenplay credits on this
one, but yeah, I think he did a

1094
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:04,440
great job.
Yep.

1095
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:08,600
Me too, yeah.
I mean, so did you, did you hear

1096
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:09,920
that?
Did you read the thing about?

1097
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:15,160
He, you know, he'd been pitching
the story around and then he he

1098
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:17,920
got a he got, he got told that
Spielberg wanted to be pitched

1099
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:19,840
directly.
He wanted Spielberg to pitch him

1100
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:21,800
directly.
Oh, no, I didn't hear that is.

1101
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:24,480
Yeah.
And so like he, he was like, so

1102
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:27,320
expect a phone call.
And so like the phone rang.

1103
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:30,440
It was Steven Spielberg.
And he was like, I wanna I I

1104
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:33,400
love your, I love your, I love
your pitch.

1105
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:37,320
Like, I wanna hear it pitch me.
So like, he just, like, he was,

1106
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:39,360
he said he was like, so nervous.
Yeah.

1107
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:43,040
He like, he like, he said, like,
stripped down to, like, T-shirts

1108
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:45,000
and boxers because he was, like,
sweating so much and, like,

1109
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:46,360
just, like, so nervous about it
all.

1110
01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:48,200
And he just, like, started
talking and, like, telling the

1111
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:50,520
story and, like, you know,
pitching it to Spielberg.

1112
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:51,840
And he, like, went on for a long
time.

1113
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:54,600
And there was, like, no sound.
And it kicked pause.

1114
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:55,880
There's like, no sound on the
phone.

1115
01:02:56,480 --> 01:03:01,040
And, like, paused for a second.
And then Spielberg was like, I'm

1116
01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:02,440
loving every word of this.
Don't stop talking.

1117
01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:06,360
It's like he kept going again or
whatever and said he wanted to

1118
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:09,360
make the movie.
Yeah, that's so cool, Spielberg.

1119
01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:11,560
Thrives on like people.
Excited about?

1120
01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:14,720
Stories because he's the same
way.

1121
01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:15,880
Like.
When he's excited.

1122
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:17,880
About a story, it seems like.
Yeah.

1123
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:20,120
Especially when you like.
Look at.

1124
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:23,520
Behind the scenes stuff in his
younger days and he's just like,

1125
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:28,000
he's so excited and, and, and
like, not that he's not when

1126
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:30,040
he's older, but just that young
energy, you know?

1127
01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:32,720
Yeah, he just has that.
He always kind of like.

1128
01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:35,280
Scorsese, like there's a little
bit of for that conversation

1129
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:37,600
between both of them is so good
because they both have this

1130
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:40,480
thing where, like, they're like
some of the most famous and

1131
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:42,040
accomplished film makers of all
time.

1132
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:45,880
And yet there's still an aspect
of them that you can feel the

1133
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:49,720
kid that's like, I can't believe
I get to make movies, You know,

1134
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:52,240
like every movie I get to make.
I can't believe I get to make

1135
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:53,920
movies for sure.
And I can't believe I get to

1136
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:55,600
work with these great people,
but I can't believe I get to

1137
01:03:55,600 --> 01:03:56,360
make movies.
Yeah.

1138
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:00,720
Oh man, so fun.
Yeah, for sure.

1139
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:05,320
Yeah, just to run through the
the rest of the crew.

1140
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:10,040
A lot of these are like, so some
of these are like new, you know,

1141
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:16,880
kind of the typical Michael Kahn
editor, Yanush Kaminsky, DP, You

1142
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:20,360
got Adam Somner, assistant
director, has been working with

1143
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:22,640
Spielberg forever.
Same with Mitch Dubin.

1144
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:27,480
With the camera you have Gary
Rydstrom.

1145
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:31,320
Doing.
Sound, I mean, but do you also

1146
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:35,240
get some new names?
Thomas Newman doing the music?

1147
01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:40,680
Not, I think, John Williams.
I think, he said.

1148
01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:45,640
Was dealing with some sort of
illness but but I think also

1149
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:49,520
working on Star Wars yeah this
is fascinating so I.

1150
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:52,160
I read him.
I heard Bill Barr talking about

1151
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:54,720
this.
Yeah, He said that he has a deal

1152
01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:58,840
with John Williams, that he will
always do Spielberg's films.

1153
01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:01,640
And whenever he signs on to do
something else, that whenever

1154
01:05:01,640 --> 01:05:03,800
Williams sign and do something
else, there's a thing in his

1155
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:06,960
contract that says I can pause
doing this to go work on

1156
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:09,200
something for Spielberg if he
has a movie coming out.

1157
01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:12,040
And so he had the same deal on
Star Wars.

1158
01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:14,880
He on The Force Awakens, what he
was working on at the time.

1159
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:18,440
And so it was all all lined up
to do.

1160
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:22,720
He was going to stop doing that
and spend two months doing

1161
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:25,920
British spies because there's
only about 30 or 40 minutes of

1162
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:28,320
music in the movie.
It's not a square heavy film.

1163
01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:31,760
And he was going to just step
aside, do that and then go back

1164
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:34,360
to working on Star Wars.
But he had heart problems and he

1165
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:36,000
had to have a stint put in.
Oh wow.

1166
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:40,520
And the his doctor told him like
you're, you're fine, you're

1167
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:43,120
going to be fine.
But you can't do any, you can't

1168
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:45,480
do any of your conducting work,
anything like that for like 7

1169
01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:47,640
weeks.
And it just knocked out the time

1170
01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:49,240
he was going to use to work on
this.

1171
01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:52,000
Yeah.
And Spielberg, he said.

1172
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:54,400
Philberg said it was the worst
phone call he's ever received.

1173
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:56,960
Oh, man.
Was both finding.

1174
01:05:56,960 --> 01:05:59,560
Out that.
That he was that John Williams

1175
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:02,560
was having heart surgery, right.
And that he wasn't going to be

1176
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:03,640
able to do the score.
Yeah.

1177
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:05,120
For British spies.
Yeah.

1178
01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:07,400
Yeah.
I mean, Thomas Newman.

1179
01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:09,720
Good, good.
Composer, I mean, he's done.

1180
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:15,400
Oh yeah, done some Pixar work.
Oh, yeah, Shawshank, I think.

1181
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:21,200
But yeah.
And there's a degree to where,

1182
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:23,280
like, it was kind of like a
breath of fresh air.

1183
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:26,200
I've been listening.
I've been just like hearing John

1184
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:29,680
Williams scores non-stop through
this through this series.

1185
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:33,360
And I've shared a few times that
there's a degree to which like

1186
01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:36,520
they all start to like blend
together and sound the same at

1187
01:06:36,720 --> 01:06:38,920
some point.
That's why, I think that's why.

1188
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:41,640
I like Catch Me If You Can has
become like my favorite John.

1189
01:06:41,640 --> 01:06:44,160
Williams score.
It's fun because it's so

1190
01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:45,720
different.
But.

1191
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:49,280
But yeah, Thomas Newman.
He did a good job.

1192
01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:52,400
There's not a whole.
Lot like you said in this movie,

1193
01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:56,080
and it's not it's kind of like
the rest of the movie.

1194
01:06:56,080 --> 01:07:00,880
It's not really overbearing,
which I think is strong.

1195
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:03,320
That's how movies were in the
50s though.

1196
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:05,120
That's.
What these movies were like,

1197
01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:08,280
they used to have like a theme.
You have music coming in

1198
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:10,680
moments, yeah, to really punch
up something.

1199
01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:13,080
But for the a lot of a lot of
the time of those old movies,

1200
01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:15,920
like they're they're scoreless
for the most part, Yeah.

1201
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:18,640
Yeah.
And I think maybe that maybe.

1202
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:22,080
It was good for this movie that
that Thomas Newman did it

1203
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:26,840
because Williams has a tendency
to like, really like, amp up the

1204
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:30,000
the emotion.
Yeah, for for better and for

1205
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:31,440
worse, I think.
In some.

1206
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:35,360
Instances most I would say
mostly for better but sometimes

1207
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:37,320
for worse.
And I think in this movie it,

1208
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:43,040
you know, we'll never know, but
but Thomas Newman did did a good

1209
01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:45,120
job, I think.
Oh yeah, he did a great job.

1210
01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:48,640
Another newcomer was Adam.
Stockhausen.

1211
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:51,920
Who?
Even Spielberg and that

1212
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:54,960
Scorsese, that little interview
with Scorsese was like, Oh yeah,

1213
01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:57,240
that's the guy that does all of
Wes Anderson's movies.

1214
01:07:57,840 --> 01:08:00,160
Yeah, cuz anytime I see Adam
Stockhausen, I was.

1215
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:02,520
Like, oh, that's the West.
Guy yeah.

1216
01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:05,520
And so it felt good to like
think in the same way as

1217
01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:06,920
Spielberg for that half a
second.

1218
01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:13,920
Yeah, yeah, that's fun.
Stockhausen, cuz he's a great

1219
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:18,760
production designer, obviously
to to put together all those Wes

1220
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:21,800
Anderson sets.
Yeah, this is way different than

1221
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:27,600
that, but looks great.
I mean, I mean he enjoyed it.

1222
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:30,920
Working in a real world and.
Not a Anderson world.

1223
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:33,479
Yeah.
And this does feel very real.

1224
01:08:33,479 --> 01:08:39,479
Like this like between his work
and Kaminski's, which you know,

1225
01:08:39,760 --> 01:08:45,359
it's funny because Kaminski
sometimes can his like the

1226
01:08:45,359 --> 01:08:50,760
haziness of his movies can
become like over stylized in in

1227
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:54,800
good ways, but sometimes in like
distracting ways.

1228
01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:58,399
Like that's to me, like Minority
Report.

1229
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:04,240
I think I would love even more
if like I wasn't blinded by

1230
01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:06,240
backlighting like every 5
seconds.

1231
01:09:07,399 --> 01:09:08,960
And that's just like a
stylistic.

1232
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:10,399
Choice.
That doesn't work for me.

1233
01:09:10,399 --> 01:09:13,399
Maybe it works for others, but I
still really love Minority

1234
01:09:13,399 --> 01:09:15,399
Report.
But that was like one of the

1235
01:09:15,399 --> 01:09:19,000
weaker things.
But he's really toned down.

1236
01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:24,160
And Adam Stockhausen, I guess is
toned down too from from his

1237
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:28,040
typical W fair.
Yeah, this one looks great.

1238
01:09:28,319 --> 01:09:31,000
I think.
I think the, I think the

1239
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:33,319
locations are doing a lot of
work too.

1240
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:37,319
Yeah.
So whoever's, the usually

1241
01:09:37,319 --> 01:09:40,760
production designers are all up
in the location scouting.

1242
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:44,520
So I'm sure he had, he had a lot
of decisions on that, but he

1243
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:46,800
wasn't in the special features.
So I don't know.

1244
01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:49,399
I'm busy working on the Wes
Anderson movie.

1245
01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:51,920
Probably.
Ellen.

1246
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:53,600
Lewis does the casting.
She's.

1247
01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:55,160
She's.
Done always, Yeah.

1248
01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:57,080
A bunch of Spielberg stuff.
Yeah.

1249
01:09:57,920 --> 01:10:01,080
And then, yeah, costume,
costume.

1250
01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:03,080
So here's where you definitely
get some.

1251
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:07,240
You get some Germans with the
set decoration, Bernard Henrik.

1252
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:09,720
That's got to be a German.
German guy.

1253
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:13,400
And Rina D'Angelo.
Probably not, but.

1254
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:17,200
Costumes Cassia, Willika,
Maimone.

1255
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:19,600
Maimone.
Who knows how to say that name.

1256
01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:24,040
She does, but I don't good
costumes in this movie.

1257
01:10:24,160 --> 01:10:25,080
It's.
Oh yeah, it's.

1258
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:27,880
Just when you don't.
Notice the costumes?

1259
01:10:27,880 --> 01:10:32,080
I think that's a.
Good thing, yeah, I guess.

1260
01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:33,880
Not always.
It's good to notice them, but.

1261
01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:36,720
Yeah, costumes play a big part
in this movie.

1262
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:37,720
They do.
Coat taken away.

1263
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:42,000
The coach thing I had that coat
Saks 5th Ave.

1264
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:43,040
Is that what he?
Says it is.

1265
01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:49,120
Yeah, Saks.
Hello again.

1266
01:10:49,240 --> 01:10:50,280
Do you know?
How?

1267
01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:54,680
You can really support the show.
For free in just a few minutes

1268
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:57,800
or less.
That's right, just.

1269
01:10:57,800 --> 01:11:01,200
Leave a.
Rating and review on Spotify and

1270
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:04,640
Apple or wherever you listen
that might allow for ratings and

1271
01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:07,760
reviews.
These really help the visibility

1272
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:08,840
of the.
Podcast.

1273
01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:12,000
In fact, just hit that pause.
Button right?

1274
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:17,320
Now and drop the review right
now and then you can get.

1275
01:11:17,320 --> 01:11:19,920
Back to the show.
I'd greatly appreciate it.

1276
01:11:20,440 --> 01:11:24,280
OK, I trust that you when?
Left that rating.

1277
01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:26,360
And review.
Now back to the show.

1278
01:11:28,480 --> 01:11:30,280
Yeah, it's.
Tom Hanks, 4th.

1279
01:11:30,280 --> 01:11:36,160
Collaboration with Spielberg
this is this is a good like

1280
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:40,280
decade ish after the terminal.
So it's been, it's been a while

1281
01:11:40,280 --> 01:11:45,440
they've I guess would, would
their TV.

1282
01:11:45,440 --> 01:11:48,360
Work have come.
Out in between there maybe.

1283
01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:50,400
Yeah, they did the miniseries
between there, right?

1284
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:52,360
Yeah, it.
Seems like it, yeah.

1285
01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:56,760
Band of Brothers, I think was
around that time.

1286
01:11:57,280 --> 01:11:59,400
So yeah, it's not like they
haven't been working together,

1287
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:02,480
but just not on feature films.
Yeah.

1288
01:12:02,480 --> 01:12:06,240
Band of Brothers and the the.
Pacific, The Pacific, Yeah,

1289
01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:11,240
yeah.
But yeah, this is not not the

1290
01:12:11,240 --> 01:12:13,400
last collab.
He comes back for the Post.

1291
01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:17,320
Yep.
But but yeah, close to last.

1292
01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:20,640
And, you know, of course,
Spielberg didn't really have

1293
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:22,960
anybody else in mind for this
part.

1294
01:12:23,440 --> 01:12:27,880
And if Tom Hanks gets a call
from Spielberg, then he's

1295
01:12:27,880 --> 01:12:31,520
probably going to say yes.
So yeah, you needed Gary Cooper.

1296
01:12:31,640 --> 01:12:32,920
That's so you needed.
We need you.

1297
01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:35,440
Needed our Gary Cooper.
Yeah, that's that's Tom Hanks.

1298
01:12:37,440 --> 01:12:38,280
Yeah.
Hanks.

1299
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:43,640
He's ready to go.
Loves history, loves military

1300
01:12:43,640 --> 01:12:46,880
history, like dude just likes
history.

1301
01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:51,120
So he's he's all on board.
Mark Rylance is a little bit of

1302
01:12:51,120 --> 01:12:53,320
a different story.
He's somebody that Spielberg had

1303
01:12:53,320 --> 01:12:57,280
a kind of circled what I read
was like for 30 years, he had

1304
01:12:57,520 --> 01:13:02,400
been kind of aware of Rylance
and he.

1305
01:13:02,400 --> 01:13:04,160
Saw him.
In a performance of

1306
01:13:04,400 --> 01:13:06,360
Shakespeare's 12th night in
London.

1307
01:13:06,360 --> 01:13:08,120
And was like, I've got to get
this guy.

1308
01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:10,920
Yeah, because he was with the
Royal Shakespeare.

1309
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:14,600
Company for like.
Like 25 years or something like

1310
01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:15,080
that.
Yeah.

1311
01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:18,240
He was the first, first director
of the Royal Space Shakespeare

1312
01:13:18,480 --> 01:13:20,560
Company as well.
I think something like that.

1313
01:13:20,560 --> 01:13:24,760
And from what I can.
Tell he did a lot of also just a

1314
01:13:24,760 --> 01:13:29,360
lot of like reimagining of stuff
and yeah, just a lot of

1315
01:13:29,360 --> 01:13:30,480
creative.
Work.

1316
01:13:30,480 --> 01:13:33,920
With those, with those
productions, yeah, it's kind of

1317
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:35,680
fun to read about someone like
that where like.

1318
01:13:36,360 --> 01:13:38,560
People like Tom Hanks, the
Steven Spielberg know about this

1319
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:41,840
guy because he's like a
legendary stage actor, right?

1320
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:44,520
You know, And then I've never
heard of him before, 'cause I'm

1321
01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:45,880
not metal Fall.
A stage actor.

1322
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:46,440
Exactly.
Yeah.

1323
01:13:47,560 --> 01:13:50,640
And for them to be, like,
geeking out over the fact that

1324
01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:52,840
they get to work with Mark Riley
as it's pretty fun.

1325
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:54,600
Yeah.
You know, it's fun to think of

1326
01:13:54,680 --> 01:13:56,840
Tom Hanks geeking out about
getting to work with somebody.

1327
01:13:56,840 --> 01:13:58,160
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.

1328
01:13:58,160 --> 01:14:01,400
And I mean Spielberg.
I guess like when?

1329
01:14:01,400 --> 01:14:06,200
You're a a movie producer, you
you just like have to be tuned

1330
01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:10,080
in to playwrights and stage
productions like Warhorse.

1331
01:14:10,080 --> 01:14:12,480
Obviously.
For sure they made because they

1332
01:14:12,480 --> 01:14:17,600
loved the play, the Kathleen
Kennedy and Frank Marshall saw

1333
01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:20,160
it and then they're like told
Spielberg, you've got to go see

1334
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:21,440
it.
So he went and saw.

1335
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:24,840
But yeah, I mean.
Yeah, he's.

1336
01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:29,040
He he's goes to to plays and
it's like sees Ryland.

1337
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:30,600
Seems like I've got to get this
guy.

1338
01:14:31,120 --> 01:14:35,720
Obviously like idea ideal for
this particular character too

1339
01:14:35,720 --> 01:14:40,840
because it's a Soviet spy but
born and raised in Scotland, so

1340
01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:43,520
ideal for that.
Doesn't.

1341
01:14:43,520 --> 01:14:48,640
Have to do a Russian accent.
But yeah, I.

1342
01:14:48,640 --> 01:14:52,200
Wrote down this Spielberg quote
about Rylance.

1343
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:55,720
He said Mark played it with
inscrutable ease, which I think

1344
01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:59,920
is a great description.
He goes.

1345
01:14:59,920 --> 01:15:01,200
On to say he invites you to
look.

1346
01:15:01,200 --> 01:15:03,880
Deeply into him to try to
discover his secrets.

1347
01:15:04,160 --> 01:15:06,680
And we get inexorably drawn into
his character.

1348
01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:09,880
Then we're left with a decision,
our own moral values.

1349
01:15:09,880 --> 01:15:12,880
Do we want to like him, or will
we prevent ourselves from liking

1350
01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:16,800
him too much?
And I wrote that down because I

1351
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:20,480
think it just comments very well
on, like, what Rylance is doing

1352
01:15:20,480 --> 01:15:26,040
with that character, which is,
like, just enough to, like, make

1353
01:15:26,040 --> 01:15:29,560
you wonder more about this guy.
Yeah.

1354
01:15:30,480 --> 01:15:31,560
Yeah.
I I.

1355
01:15:31,560 --> 01:15:32,640
Love.
I.

1356
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:37,920
I love spy movies forever, but
you know, most of the time spy

1357
01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:42,520
movies are, you know, there's
someone like James Bond you.

1358
01:15:42,680 --> 01:15:46,320
Know or like it's.
Someone that like when that guy

1359
01:15:46,320 --> 01:15:49,520
walks in the room, everybody in
the room looks at that guy,

1360
01:15:49,640 --> 01:15:51,200
Ethan Hunt, you know, You know?
Yeah.

1361
01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:52,520
Yeah, exactly.
Ethan Hunt.

1362
01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:56,320
Jason Bourne, You know, it's
like these people are not

1363
01:15:56,320 --> 01:16:00,480
invisible, but like when you
read about like, actual spies,

1364
01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:05,280
being invisible, being not
noticed is everything.

1365
01:16:05,680 --> 01:16:13,040
And to be like a just a small,
unassuming, forgettable human

1366
01:16:13,040 --> 01:16:17,680
being, that's a spy, you know,
Nothing interesting about you at

1367
01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:19,520
all.
If you can, if you can manage

1368
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:21,400
that.
He plays that so well, you know?

1369
01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:23,800
Yeah.
He.

1370
01:16:24,720 --> 01:16:28,720
Rylance.
Is so one of the things?

1371
01:16:28,720 --> 01:16:32,400
That.
I loved was hearing Spielberg

1372
01:16:32,400 --> 01:16:36,240
talk about Hanks talk about
Highlands.

1373
01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:41,840
Spielberg like shares a story
about how like after they're the

1374
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:46,280
first thing they shoot together
is like that first meeting and

1375
01:16:46,760 --> 01:16:51,360
the after like a few takes Hanks
like pull Spielberg aside and

1376
01:16:51,360 --> 01:16:54,760
he's like, he's like, first of
all, this guy is incredible.

1377
01:16:55,640 --> 01:16:58,720
And second of all, he's like,
I've got my work cut out for me

1378
01:16:59,080 --> 01:17:04,640
because I've got to keep my my
guy in his like his like

1379
01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:09,640
talkative, energetic character.
You know, in Spielberg talked

1380
01:17:09,640 --> 01:17:12,440
about like as an actor,
sometimes it's tempting to like

1381
01:17:12,640 --> 01:17:17,320
match stillness or quietness
with with stillness and

1382
01:17:17,320 --> 01:17:21,480
quietness, which can be a
mistake.

1383
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:25,800
And in this case, it would have
been because the Donovan

1384
01:17:25,800 --> 01:17:28,040
character is not a still quiet
character.

1385
01:17:29,160 --> 01:17:33,760
And so but it just it was cool
to see like Spielberg recognize

1386
01:17:33,760 --> 01:17:37,760
that, but also like Hanks
immediately just as an actor

1387
01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:42,240
recognize, OK, like I've got to
work really hard to not fall

1388
01:17:42,240 --> 01:17:44,120
into that temptation as an
actor.

1389
01:17:44,120 --> 01:17:48,720
And I it just speaks to.
Also it speaks.

1390
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:54,880
To like the the acting acumen, I
guess of Hanks, yeah, but also

1391
01:17:54,880 --> 01:18:01,600
like just the black hole gravity
of that Rylance brought to that

1392
01:18:01,600 --> 01:18:04,520
part of a great of a great actor
a.

1393
01:18:04,760 --> 01:18:08,120
Great job, you know, Yeah,
totally, totally.

1394
01:18:08,200 --> 01:18:09,080
Yeah.
Just like.

1395
01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:10,200
I mean even.
Just.

1396
01:18:10,200 --> 01:18:15,680
Micro, you know, expressions
that he makes that you can tell,

1397
01:18:15,680 --> 01:18:19,480
like something's turning around
in that mind, but you just don't

1398
01:18:19,480 --> 01:18:21,120
know what it is.
Yeah.

1399
01:18:21,120 --> 01:18:24,600
And I love characters like that,
you know, I, I think it's

1400
01:18:24,600 --> 01:18:26,240
pretty, I mean, he had.
Ryan has done.

1401
01:18:26,240 --> 01:18:29,800
Like a few little roles before
just a couple, a couple of small

1402
01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:33,000
roles, Nothing, nothing.
This, this in the in the middle

1403
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:38,360
of things and the I guess it's
pretty amazing that he was good

1404
01:18:38,360 --> 01:18:42,120
enough to know, being a stage
actor and doing.

1405
01:18:42,120 --> 01:18:43,720
Shakespeare.
You know, and stuff like that,

1406
01:18:43,720 --> 01:18:46,320
which is, which is very, which
is much bigger.

1407
01:18:46,360 --> 01:18:50,440
Yeah, You know, has to be much
bigger, like, to know how to be

1408
01:18:50,440 --> 01:18:54,040
so small and so still.
And you give just these small

1409
01:18:54,040 --> 01:18:55,520
looks that do everything.
Yes.

1410
01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:57,840
So that's film acting compared
to stage acting, you know.

1411
01:18:57,840 --> 01:18:59,680
Yeah.
And the pauses, too.

1412
01:19:00,240 --> 01:19:02,440
Like pregnant pauses.
Like he.

1413
01:19:02,440 --> 01:19:06,360
Like.
Kills in this movie, you know

1414
01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:07,680
there's moments.
Where like.

1415
01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:12,520
He looks at, you know, as as.
Able.

1416
01:19:12,760 --> 01:19:17,760
Like glances at at Donovan for
like, you know, it feels like

1417
01:19:17,760 --> 01:19:21,520
longer, but it's probably like 1
1/2 seconds or so.

1418
01:19:21,560 --> 01:19:25,520
Yeah.
Before he makes his remark or

1419
01:19:25,520 --> 01:19:28,400
whatever it is and that like. 1
1/2.

1420
01:19:28,400 --> 01:19:31,320
Seconds is like so full of
something.

1421
01:19:31,600 --> 01:19:34,960
You know, you have to, you have
to kind of like figure out what

1422
01:19:34,960 --> 01:19:38,800
you think that something is, but
and it does like it, it's taking

1423
01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:41,160
that quote.
Like you have to decide what

1424
01:19:41,160 --> 01:19:43,800
you're going to do with him and
like Donovan has to decide what

1425
01:19:43,800 --> 01:19:45,960
he's going to do with him.
Like in those moments, right?

1426
01:19:45,960 --> 01:19:49,000
Like it's it's almost like
Kuleshov effect of a human

1427
01:19:49,000 --> 01:19:52,360
being.
You know, we're like you're he's

1428
01:19:52,360 --> 01:19:55,760
giving you nothing.
He's giving you nothing.

1429
01:19:55,800 --> 01:19:58,920
But like a very blank kind of
thing that invites you to

1430
01:19:58,920 --> 01:20:02,720
project upon it.
And like so, everybody else in

1431
01:20:02,720 --> 01:20:08,680
the world is looking at.
Is is looking at Abel, Abel,

1432
01:20:09,160 --> 01:20:12,280
Rudolph, Abel, Yeah.
And and seeing everyone in

1433
01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:16,440
America look at him and seeing
evil Soviet spy.

1434
01:20:16,720 --> 01:20:19,240
Traitor, horrible person and.
They're just projecting that

1435
01:20:19,240 --> 01:20:23,120
onto him, and Donovan has to go
through the work of not doing

1436
01:20:23,120 --> 01:20:27,880
that right, of thinking well, he
may be those things, he may have

1437
01:20:28,000 --> 01:20:30,280
done great harm to this country,
who knows?

1438
01:20:31,240 --> 01:20:34,840
But he is still owed, he's so
owed our justice.

1439
01:20:34,840 --> 01:20:36,400
If our justice means anything,
he's owed it.

1440
01:20:37,280 --> 01:20:41,720
And having to like, not project
that stuff onto him, How hard

1441
01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:45,600
that must have been to do.
I mean as a for a human.

1442
01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:47,920
Being just for Donovan.
To do that in the in the real

1443
01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:51,120
world, real life, to not do
that, you know, so hard.

1444
01:20:51,160 --> 01:20:52,520
Yeah, I agree.
It's.

1445
01:20:54,000 --> 01:20:56,360
It's.
It's one of those.

1446
01:20:56,360 --> 01:20:59,760
Things that like.
I would love to.

1447
01:20:59,760 --> 01:21:02,760
Think I would be the same.
In the same situation, but

1448
01:21:02,760 --> 01:21:06,080
there's just there's just so
it's so hard when you're

1449
01:21:06,080 --> 01:21:11,000
actually in those situations to
it's because it's very, it's

1450
01:21:11,000 --> 01:21:12,720
like.
It's.

1451
01:21:12,720 --> 01:21:14,680
The epitome.
Of like.

1452
01:21:14,680 --> 01:21:19,680
Loving your enemy in a way that
that whole idea and loving them

1453
01:21:19,680 --> 01:21:22,600
and not in the sense of like,
oh, you're like loving them.

1454
01:21:22,600 --> 01:21:26,160
Like you love your family.
It's it's a love your enemy in

1455
01:21:26,160 --> 01:21:31,360
the sense of like you're going
to do your best to help them be

1456
01:21:31,360 --> 01:21:33,400
treated as a human.
Yeah.

1457
01:21:34,080 --> 01:21:36,240
And that's.
It it it it.

1458
01:21:36,240 --> 01:21:40,400
Gets it like.
Why that is such a daring thing

1459
01:21:40,400 --> 01:21:42,160
to do?
Yeah, because the, the reason

1460
01:21:42,160 --> 01:21:48,840
that we want to like, like
project suspicions or to decide

1461
01:21:48,840 --> 01:21:52,520
about who a person is, is it
then we can deal with that thing

1462
01:21:52,520 --> 01:21:55,760
that we decide that they are.
We can protect ourselves from

1463
01:21:55,760 --> 01:21:58,240
the harm that they might
otherwise do to us, you know?

1464
01:21:59,320 --> 01:22:05,280
But letting someone be
ambiguous, taking that step away

1465
01:22:05,280 --> 01:22:09,280
and like, letting, like, letting
them be whoever they are and

1466
01:22:09,280 --> 01:22:12,240
still doing the right thing, you
put yourself at risk in that

1467
01:22:12,240 --> 01:22:15,200
situation.
And Donovan puts himself at

1468
01:22:15,200 --> 01:22:17,360
risk.
I mean, quite himself.

1469
01:22:18,280 --> 01:22:19,560
Yeah.
The whole time and it.

1470
01:22:19,920 --> 01:22:22,880
It's that's that moral courage
thing, you know, that he's

1471
01:22:22,920 --> 01:22:24,720
looking for for amazing.
Yeah.

1472
01:22:24,920 --> 01:22:26,520
And it's it's great that it's
like right there in the

1473
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:29,000
performances.
It is as much as it is in the

1474
01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:30,120
story itself.
It's right there in the

1475
01:22:30,120 --> 01:22:31,080
performances.
It is.

1476
01:22:31,120 --> 01:22:32,280
And the way they interact with
each other.

1477
01:22:32,280 --> 01:22:33,040
Yeah.
So cool.

1478
01:22:33,960 --> 01:22:35,600
Yeah.
Yeah.

1479
01:22:35,680 --> 01:22:39,040
What were there?
Any other like characters or

1480
01:22:39,040 --> 01:22:41,240
actors that stood out, stood out
to you in this?

1481
01:22:42,120 --> 01:22:43,640
Because there's a lot, there's a
lot of them.

1482
01:22:44,280 --> 01:22:45,880
There's a whole bunch of people,
you know.

1483
01:22:45,920 --> 01:22:47,600
I mean it.
It's tough though, right,

1484
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:51,240
Because the those two actors,
yeah.

1485
01:22:51,640 --> 01:22:56,360
And those two characters are.
So they're not big, but they're.

1486
01:22:56,360 --> 01:22:58,400
Kind of big you.
Know they they have a lot of

1487
01:22:58,400 --> 01:22:59,240
gravity.
Yeah.

1488
01:22:59,800 --> 01:23:02,840
They're they're dense.
Everybody else can kind of get

1489
01:23:02,840 --> 01:23:04,920
lost a little bit.
But they don't really get lost.

1490
01:23:04,920 --> 01:23:07,040
But it kind of can almost feel
that way sometimes.

1491
01:23:07,200 --> 01:23:11,560
They don't matter as much.
I'm the Francis Gary Powers.

1492
01:23:11,560 --> 01:23:14,760
I think that Austin Stowell.
Yeah.

1493
01:23:15,720 --> 01:23:17,400
Does.
A terrific job in that.

1494
01:23:17,400 --> 01:23:20,840
Role it's it's also a hard role.
It is.

1495
01:23:20,840 --> 01:23:23,160
There's not much to work with
there's really.

1496
01:23:23,160 --> 01:23:26,600
Not, but it's really important.
That for like for us to

1497
01:23:26,600 --> 01:23:30,880
understand, like the way that
the rest of the world felt rest

1498
01:23:30,880 --> 01:23:35,240
of America felt about that guy.
And there's almost like this

1499
01:23:35,240 --> 01:23:36,960
parts of me when I watch that
every time I watch this movie

1500
01:23:36,960 --> 01:23:39,200
where I feel like, Oh, I wish
there was like an extra half

1501
01:23:39,200 --> 01:23:44,000
hour that just gave us more
about powers and like helped us

1502
01:23:44,000 --> 01:23:47,920
to like we're already asking
these moral questions about

1503
01:23:48,360 --> 01:23:50,440
about Abel.
What about, you know, Donovan,

1504
01:23:50,440 --> 01:23:52,440
whatever.
Like let's and the movie does

1505
01:23:52,440 --> 01:23:55,040
ask them about powers, but like,
let's just do it a little bit

1506
01:23:55,040 --> 01:23:58,920
more, you know, because there's
there's a whole extra like layer

1507
01:23:59,000 --> 01:24:01,920
of that going on here.
Yeah, as well.

1508
01:24:02,160 --> 01:24:03,960
I almost wonder though, if
that's like.

1509
01:24:05,840 --> 01:24:08,360
The choice was like.
OK.

1510
01:24:09,640 --> 01:24:13,720
For to do that with powers would
be like preaching to the choir.

1511
01:24:14,080 --> 01:24:17,800
And that's not as interesting as
like, let's do it with the guy

1512
01:24:17,800 --> 01:24:20,040
that we're not supposed to like,
you know.

1513
01:24:20,040 --> 01:24:23,000
Yeah, I think for sure, yeah.
Yeah.

1514
01:24:23,440 --> 01:24:25,240
And.
And I mean, Diamond doesn't

1515
01:24:25,320 --> 01:24:26,680
really.
Interact with powers, right?

1516
01:24:26,680 --> 01:24:29,960
So, right, it kind of would take
it away from his story a little

1517
01:24:29,960 --> 01:24:30,600
bit too.
Yeah.

1518
01:24:31,480 --> 01:24:33,560
It already feels like you're a
little bit away from his story

1519
01:24:33,560 --> 01:24:34,920
when you're with the stuff with
Powers.

1520
01:24:34,920 --> 01:24:36,840
Yeah.
Yeah, that's that's one of my

1521
01:24:36,840 --> 01:24:41,200
only like quibbles.
With if I have any that it's

1522
01:24:41,200 --> 01:24:43,360
hardly a quibble, but like.
Just.

1523
01:24:43,760 --> 01:24:48,000
All of those powers, you know,
sequences.

1524
01:24:48,320 --> 01:24:52,360
It's not anything to do with
like Stole as the actor or even

1525
01:24:52,360 --> 01:24:54,440
like the writing.
It's just like within the

1526
01:24:54,440 --> 01:24:58,640
structure, you feel like you're
being pulled away from the real

1527
01:24:58,640 --> 01:25:02,720
story a bit in those moments.
But it is necessary.

1528
01:25:03,120 --> 01:25:05,720
So it's, it's, it's a catch 22
really.

1529
01:25:06,440 --> 01:25:08,720
I think it's two things.
I, I, I mean, I think it's.

1530
01:25:10,280 --> 01:25:11,920
I think it's probably.
Something that Spielberg really

1531
01:25:11,920 --> 01:25:14,200
wanted to shoot.
And a story he wanted to tell,

1532
01:25:14,280 --> 01:25:16,480
you know, he didn't want to cut
that out because, right, one of

1533
01:25:16,480 --> 01:25:18,520
the reasons he wanted to do this
was because the YouTube plane

1534
01:25:18,520 --> 01:25:20,720
and his dad seeing it, all that
kind of stuff.

1535
01:25:20,720 --> 01:25:22,560
So like there's a personal
aspect to it.

1536
01:25:22,560 --> 01:25:25,400
And I think he just wanted to,
he wanted to fly a YouTube

1537
01:25:25,720 --> 01:25:29,040
bomber around and film it, you
know, and he wanted to make it,

1538
01:25:29,160 --> 01:25:31,400
make it explode.
You know, that stuff is fun to

1539
01:25:31,400 --> 01:25:34,560
do.
The guy, the guy who the guy who

1540
01:25:34,560 --> 01:25:37,200
was making war movies with his
Boy Scout troupe wants to make

1541
01:25:37,200 --> 01:25:38,760
the YouTube play going down.
Yeah.

1542
01:25:40,120 --> 01:25:43,800
And so there's that.
But it's also it, it is

1543
01:25:43,800 --> 01:25:45,760
narratively connected,
narratively important.

1544
01:25:45,760 --> 01:25:47,840
It is.
But it's it's more than

1545
01:25:47,840 --> 01:25:49,160
important.
I think more, though, it's

1546
01:25:49,160 --> 01:25:54,440
thematically related because it
gets back at that thing about

1547
01:25:54,440 --> 01:25:59,160
how we look at someone and judge
them for what they've done, what

1548
01:25:59,160 --> 01:26:00,520
we think they've done or haven't
done.

1549
01:26:00,600 --> 01:26:03,200
Yeah, because everyone was doing
that to, you know, Francis, Gary

1550
01:26:03,200 --> 01:26:05,320
Powers.
People talk about they think he

1551
01:26:05,320 --> 01:26:09,280
should have died with the plane
if he.

1552
01:26:09,280 --> 01:26:10,760
Hadn't died, and then there's
been a problem.

1553
01:26:10,800 --> 01:26:15,440
You know, so that it's
thematically related to SO and I

1554
01:26:15,440 --> 01:26:17,040
think it's fine.
I think too like.

1555
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:19,920
Maybe to a lesser degree, but
it's still there.

1556
01:26:19,920 --> 01:26:24,920
I think with the Frederick Pryor
even that's sort of there.

1557
01:26:24,920 --> 01:26:26,480
Like what is that dude doing
over there?

1558
01:26:26,480 --> 01:26:28,640
Like what?
What was this dude thinking?

1559
01:26:28,640 --> 01:26:32,480
Like he maybe he deserves to be,
you know, in the German prison.

1560
01:26:32,680 --> 01:26:33,880
You know, he's.
Not worth.

1561
01:26:33,880 --> 01:26:35,440
Our time.
Yeah, I know.

1562
01:26:35,720 --> 01:26:38,120
Yeah, he's funny.
He's almost like a bonus.

1563
01:26:38,120 --> 01:26:40,480
Yeah, right.
Which I.

1564
01:26:40,960 --> 01:26:44,680
You know, I think Powers does.
I think both of those actors do

1565
01:26:44,680 --> 01:26:49,200
a good job of like.
Kind of projecting.

1566
01:26:49,200 --> 01:26:55,760
This, it's a, it's a similar
blank slate to Abel, maybe a

1567
01:26:55,760 --> 01:26:59,800
little less blank.
You still have to like project

1568
01:26:59,920 --> 01:27:04,000
onto them what you think of them
because you don't see, you don't

1569
01:27:04,000 --> 01:27:08,720
see, I guess with Prior you see
him like trying to save the girl

1570
01:27:08,720 --> 01:27:10,920
and stuff.
So you get a little bit with

1571
01:27:10,920 --> 01:27:15,120
him, but you don't see a lot of
who they are other than maybe

1572
01:27:15,120 --> 01:27:19,000
that, other than maybe like the
scene, the interrogation scene.

1573
01:27:19,800 --> 01:27:22,400
But even then you like, you
don't know if he said anything

1574
01:27:22,400 --> 01:27:23,880
or not.
Yeah.

1575
01:27:24,320 --> 01:27:28,720
So there there's a big bit of
like, like you said, parallel

1576
01:27:28,720 --> 01:27:32,200
there with the blank slate you
have to project onto them.

1577
01:27:32,760 --> 01:27:35,600
What you think.
I mean, you also have.

1578
01:27:35,600 --> 01:27:39,160
I mean you have to have.
Prior as well, because he he is

1579
01:27:39,160 --> 01:27:42,640
part of what Donovan does, gets
him out and he uses that as part

1580
01:27:42,640 --> 01:27:45,960
of his his negotiation.
And if they cut that pull out

1581
01:27:46,120 --> 01:27:48,720
like you would have, you would
have missed one of the one of

1582
01:27:48,720 --> 01:27:51,000
the points on your triangle that
he's trying to work out.

1583
01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:53,160
So lost tension.
So, yeah.

1584
01:27:53,480 --> 01:27:55,080
And I think those actors do
good.

1585
01:27:55,440 --> 01:28:00,280
I I think the.
Few moments you get with.

1586
01:28:00,280 --> 01:28:04,560
Amy Ryan are good as his wife.
Oh yeah, a little Shilberg's mom

1587
01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:06,960
stand.
In Yeah, now, now it's like

1588
01:28:06,960 --> 01:28:08,760
every time I see someone like
that in the Spielberg movie,

1589
01:28:08,760 --> 01:28:10,880
like, oh, that's just his mom.
That's Spielberg's mom.

1590
01:28:12,720 --> 01:28:13,760
I mean, yeah.
She's a little.

1591
01:28:13,760 --> 01:28:19,000
Baby Ryan, Yeah.
I mean, the Vogel character I

1592
01:28:19,000 --> 01:28:20,600
think is good.
Sebastian Coke.

1593
01:28:20,840 --> 01:28:21,760
Coke.
Yeah.

1594
01:28:22,120 --> 01:28:23,880
Coach, I don't know how to say
that name.

1595
01:28:25,200 --> 01:28:27,720
He's he's solid.
Real quick on Mary Donovan.

1596
01:28:27,760 --> 01:28:30,000
I'll say.
Like Spielberg talks about when

1597
01:28:30,360 --> 01:28:33,880
when his dad said he was going
to go do this engineer exchange

1598
01:28:34,400 --> 01:28:38,520
thing, whatever, like good
goodwill exchange, that his mom

1599
01:28:38,520 --> 01:28:44,040
was so angry at his dad and they
had to like they had to like

1600
01:28:44,840 --> 01:28:48,560
they had a big fight with the
kids present and then had to

1601
01:28:48,560 --> 01:28:51,120
like make up and figured out
later or whatever.

1602
01:28:51,120 --> 01:28:53,680
But she was very upset about it.
So you feel that resentment in

1603
01:28:53,680 --> 01:28:55,520
the movie.
I think you too like.

1604
01:28:55,520 --> 01:28:57,680
I like the look whether it was
like whether.

1605
01:28:57,760 --> 01:29:01,480
Whether Mary Donovan really felt
that way about what Ray was

1606
01:29:01,480 --> 01:29:04,200
doing, like, I think like
Spielberg had to have that in

1607
01:29:04,200 --> 01:29:05,720
there because that was what he
experienced.

1608
01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:11,840
Yeah, you know for sure.
Yeah, I mean, you definitely

1609
01:29:11,840 --> 01:29:14,480
feel.
I think I even wrote in my notes

1610
01:29:14,480 --> 01:29:18,000
scribbled like resentment from
the wife at one point.

1611
01:29:18,000 --> 01:29:22,880
Like you really feel it.
I mean at the.

1612
01:29:22,880 --> 01:29:25,720
Dinner table sequence.
Is it's there, but it's

1613
01:29:25,720 --> 01:29:29,080
especially there like after the
and rightly so after the

1614
01:29:29,080 --> 01:29:33,480
shooting, the.
The other.

1615
01:29:34,560 --> 01:29:38,760
I'm trying to find in my the
other character that I thought

1616
01:29:38,760 --> 01:29:47,720
was really good was where is the
guy Mikhail Gorvoi?

1617
01:29:47,720 --> 01:29:50,320
Yeah, the Russian guy.
Yeah, or.

1618
01:29:50,760 --> 01:29:52,040
A German guy, I guess, or
whatever.

1619
01:29:52,080 --> 01:29:54,560
Yeah, the guy that's great.
He first meets when he gets

1620
01:29:54,560 --> 01:29:55,680
there.
That's like, yeah.

1621
01:29:57,080 --> 01:29:59,760
The character, I think, is Ivan
Shishkin.

1622
01:29:59,880 --> 01:30:01,960
Shishkin.
Yeah, He's great.

1623
01:30:02,800 --> 01:30:04,880
So good.
That one was very.

1624
01:30:04,880 --> 01:30:07,760
Like Co.
Again, that whole, like sequence

1625
01:30:07,760 --> 01:30:12,000
was like very Cohen's brother
Cohen, brother Bills, and that

1626
01:30:12,000 --> 01:30:13,760
character definitely had that
feel to him.

1627
01:30:13,760 --> 01:30:16,240
So maybe that's why I liked him.
A little bit of a quirk, yeah.

1628
01:30:16,240 --> 01:30:21,920
A little bit of quirk to him,
that kind of like sly, like

1629
01:30:22,120 --> 01:30:25,920
smooth talk talkingness to him
for sure.

1630
01:30:25,920 --> 01:30:28,720
Is there.
Yeah.

1631
01:30:28,960 --> 01:30:30,880
I mean a lot of the other.
Characters are.

1632
01:30:30,880 --> 01:30:34,760
Like they like it's.
It's one of those.

1633
01:30:34,760 --> 01:30:38,000
Spielberg things where he can
build a character very

1634
01:30:38,000 --> 01:30:42,080
efficiently when he wants to,
and so it's one of those things.

1635
01:30:42,080 --> 01:30:43,960
Where?
All the other characters kind of

1636
01:30:43,960 --> 01:30:50,560
like fall into the background of
Donovan and Abel, but they still

1637
01:30:50,560 --> 01:30:55,000
feel fully formed in a way.
It's this like magic I think

1638
01:30:55,000 --> 01:30:59,760
that Spielberg is able to do
with the way he I mean, it's

1639
01:31:00,320 --> 01:31:03,400
it's got to be, it's got to be
there in the script for him to

1640
01:31:03,400 --> 01:31:06,840
work with.
But I do think it is just how

1641
01:31:06,920 --> 01:31:11,120
good Spielberg is at like.
I mean, just think about like.

1642
01:31:11,120 --> 01:31:14,840
The the.
Scene with the daughter, you

1643
01:31:14,840 --> 01:31:18,840
know, being stood up and his
like junior lawyer assistant

1644
01:31:18,840 --> 01:31:21,640
guy, like coming in.
It's like you get everything you

1645
01:31:21,640 --> 01:31:25,720
need to know about his daughter
even though that's the only time

1646
01:31:25,720 --> 01:31:29,400
you hear her or see her.
Really all you need to know

1647
01:31:29,400 --> 01:31:32,920
about her, all you need to know
about his assistant, all from

1648
01:31:32,920 --> 01:31:37,000
that one like thing.
Yep, and you know they you

1649
01:31:37,000 --> 01:31:37,760
forget.
About.

1650
01:31:37,760 --> 01:31:39,560
Them.
They just kind of fade into the

1651
01:31:39,560 --> 01:31:42,360
background, but in that moment
they feel like fully formed

1652
01:31:42,360 --> 01:31:47,280
characters and I, I just.
Love that that.

1653
01:31:47,280 --> 01:31:51,760
Thing that Spielberg does with
that the.

1654
01:31:52,240 --> 01:31:55,200
I guess we should also.
Mention there was a a Jesse

1655
01:31:55,200 --> 01:31:57,680
Plummons sighting in this movie.
There is.

1656
01:31:57,800 --> 01:32:00,640
Yep.
Jesse Plummons jump scare.

1657
01:32:00,640 --> 01:32:04,480
There's a bunch of those back in
the back in the teens, yeah.

1658
01:32:05,560 --> 01:32:08,880
Before we knew who he was.
Oh man, Yeah.

1659
01:32:09,360 --> 01:32:10,640
Yeah.
We definitely you.

1660
01:32:10,640 --> 01:32:12,480
Definitely don't know who he is
in this movie.

1661
01:32:12,480 --> 01:32:15,480
He is not, yeah, he is not the
not really there.

1662
01:32:15,520 --> 01:32:16,360
He's.
Not the Jesse.

1663
01:32:16,520 --> 01:32:19,680
Plemons we we know and are
frightened of now.

1664
01:32:23,720 --> 01:32:25,760
I think my favorite Jesse.
Plemons character is.

1665
01:32:25,760 --> 01:32:28,880
Still game night though.
Oh yeah, he's so good.

1666
01:32:31,160 --> 01:32:32,720
But.
Yeah, I mean.

1667
01:32:32,720 --> 01:32:36,480
He's he's fine in the movie.
He's he's just kind of only

1668
01:32:36,480 --> 01:32:38,880
there for little role.
Yeah, 2 minutes maybe.

1669
01:32:41,600 --> 01:32:44,080
I also really.
Liked Max?

1670
01:32:44,080 --> 01:32:51,120
Moth, who plays the Harold Otts
secretary for that one scene, I

1671
01:32:51,120 --> 01:32:55,200
think because it's a very good
scene, but I think he kind of

1672
01:32:55,200 --> 01:33:00,800
has that, like, anxious
assistant energy really well.

1673
01:33:01,800 --> 01:33:04,360
So figured I'd shout that guy
out too, Yeah?

1674
01:33:07,440 --> 01:33:09,480
Yeah, let's, let's.
Talk a little bit about the

1675
01:33:09,480 --> 01:33:13,680
production before we and then we
I think out of the production,

1676
01:33:13,680 --> 01:33:16,080
we'll jump into your theory.
OK, cool.

1677
01:33:16,640 --> 01:33:17,840
Because I'm excited to hear.
That.

1678
01:33:18,520 --> 01:33:20,800
Yeah.
So yeah, this was made.

1679
01:33:21,000 --> 01:33:23,560
Between.
September and December 2014,

1680
01:33:24,520 --> 01:33:26,600
they started in in New York
City.

1681
01:33:27,920 --> 01:33:31,120
I think Spielberg mentioned this
is the most he had ever shot in

1682
01:33:31,400 --> 01:33:36,440
New York because I mean, you do
get a good, I guess half, half

1683
01:33:36,440 --> 01:33:39,720
the movie in New York.
They were.

1684
01:33:39,720 --> 01:33:42,520
In Brooklyn, they were in
Astoria, Queens, lower

1685
01:33:42,520 --> 01:33:47,280
Manhattan.
So they, yeah, they, they they

1686
01:33:47,280 --> 01:33:51,200
really just spent a lot of time
shooting in New York, which he

1687
01:33:51,200 --> 01:33:56,120
said was great, a great time.
Other locations they went to

1688
01:33:56,120 --> 01:34:01,600
Bill Air Force Base out in your
neck of the woods in California

1689
01:34:02,120 --> 01:34:08,640
for the YouTube plane stuff.
I think they so I I'm pretty

1690
01:34:08,640 --> 01:34:13,840
sure the YouTube plane was like
a built in like 1980.

1691
01:34:15,120 --> 01:34:17,680
They they said the program.
Is still in operation.

1692
01:34:17,680 --> 01:34:19,200
They still in the YouTube spot?
They're still used.

1693
01:34:19,480 --> 01:34:21,000
Yeah, yeah.
I.

1694
01:34:21,000 --> 01:34:25,640
Kind of doubt they have gigantic
cameras coming out of the bottom

1695
01:34:25,640 --> 01:34:28,160
of them anymore, right?
That kind of maybe they do them.

1696
01:34:29,000 --> 01:34:31,400
Yeah, maybe they do them they.
Might I don't.

1697
01:34:31,400 --> 01:34:34,840
Know we wouldn't really know.
They got IMAX cameras to get

1698
01:34:34,840 --> 01:34:35,080
off.
The.

1699
01:34:35,240 --> 01:34:38,320
Bottom of the six they got to
get even IMAX cameras are.

1700
01:34:38,320 --> 01:34:40,560
Like a portion of.
The size of.

1701
01:34:40,560 --> 01:34:43,520
The ones you see in the movie,
those things are huge.

1702
01:34:43,840 --> 01:34:45,320
They probably do.
I mean, they got to get like,

1703
01:34:45,560 --> 01:34:49,280
really?
High resolution, like, like

1704
01:34:49,320 --> 01:34:51,680
pictures.
Yeah, from really, really far

1705
01:34:51,680 --> 01:34:52,120
up.
Yeah.

1706
01:34:52,120 --> 01:34:55,360
You know, you would need a
really large aperture to be able

1707
01:34:55,360 --> 01:34:56,840
to do that, I guess.
So that's true.

1708
01:34:58,640 --> 01:35:01,040
It's just, it's one of those
things where it's like, you

1709
01:35:01,040 --> 01:35:04,480
know, this is real, but like the
size of it is just kind of

1710
01:35:04,480 --> 01:35:07,320
comical, right?
Because you just, you're not

1711
01:35:07,320 --> 01:35:09,200
used to seeing lenses that big.
Yeah.

1712
01:35:12,400 --> 01:35:16,520
But yeah, they those things so.
I think they were hitting like,

1713
01:35:16,640 --> 01:35:21,760
I think they say 70,000 feet in
the movie, but I think that at

1714
01:35:21,760 --> 01:35:25,760
the time, I think I read that
that was like the an altitude

1715
01:35:25,760 --> 01:35:30,360
record at that point in time.
And so but they but they

1716
01:35:30,360 --> 01:35:34,160
couldn't like brag about that.
Because they didn't want

1717
01:35:34,160 --> 01:35:35,320
anybody.
To know, yeah, that's the.

1718
01:35:35,800 --> 01:35:39,320
Whole point, yeah.
Yeah, nothing.

1719
01:35:39,440 --> 01:35:41,240
Nothing.
Digital in the plane take off

1720
01:35:41,240 --> 01:35:43,560
stuff.
They just were driving vehicles

1721
01:35:43,560 --> 01:35:45,880
along the YouTube plane really
taking off.

1722
01:35:46,840 --> 01:35:52,800
So but the it's really the only
thing digital in the whole movie

1723
01:35:52,800 --> 01:35:59,200
is the crash sequence.
They, you know, you got the

1724
01:35:59,200 --> 01:36:02,840
actor in a cockpit on a
mechanical arm in front of a

1725
01:36:02,840 --> 01:36:06,760
blue screen for that sequence,
but it looks really good.

1726
01:36:07,720 --> 01:36:09,840
It does.
They they did a really, really

1727
01:36:09,840 --> 01:36:10,840
great.
Job with that.

1728
01:36:12,280 --> 01:36:17,280
The digital effects movie magic
worked for that one, I think.

1729
01:36:17,440 --> 01:36:19,200
I think they had like.
Just enough.

1730
01:36:19,960 --> 01:36:24,240
Practical stuff with the with
the like real cockpit.

1731
01:36:24,880 --> 01:36:27,600
That he was working.
With, you know, for it to work.

1732
01:36:27,600 --> 01:36:32,680
But yeah, love.
That stuff, it's.

1733
01:36:32,680 --> 01:36:37,760
Kind of a throwaway part of the
movie, but really exciting to

1734
01:36:37,760 --> 01:36:41,040
watch.
Oh yeah, yeah, it's almost.

1735
01:36:41,040 --> 01:36:42,800
Like I, I just, I thought it was
one of those things like, well,

1736
01:36:42,800 --> 01:36:44,040
if I'm going.
To do this movie, I'm going to

1737
01:36:44,040 --> 01:36:47,400
do this thing, yeah, as well.
Let's put this on film best we

1738
01:36:47,400 --> 01:36:47,960
can.
Yeah.

1739
01:36:50,120 --> 01:36:50,680
Yeah.
I mean.

1740
01:36:50,680 --> 01:36:55,200
Then they go to Berlin about
after about a month in in New

1741
01:36:55,200 --> 01:36:58,520
York, they go fly to Berlin.
They they already have like a

1742
01:36:58,520 --> 01:37:02,480
second team working there.
Hanks, Tom.

1743
01:37:02,480 --> 01:37:04,880
Hanks said it feels.
Like a city of ghosts, which I

1744
01:37:04,880 --> 01:37:07,240
thought was an interesting
observation.

1745
01:37:08,000 --> 01:37:12,280
Definitely see that being the
case with the history of the

1746
01:37:12,280 --> 01:37:17,400
city.
So but yeah, they, they shot at

1747
01:37:17,400 --> 01:37:21,480
Templehorpe Airport, which had
been converted into a park in

1748
01:37:21,480 --> 01:37:25,040
2010.
And so they they did a lot of

1749
01:37:25,040 --> 01:37:30,000
the shooting and building of
sets there the.

1750
01:37:30,000 --> 01:37:31,760
One of the only.
Things they didn't.

1751
01:37:32,040 --> 01:37:37,240
Do there in Berlin was the
Friedrich Stock Friedrich

1752
01:37:37,240 --> 01:37:40,880
Strauss station, which is where
they, you know, they have the

1753
01:37:40,880 --> 01:37:43,200
like checkpoint line that he
cuts in line at.

1754
01:37:44,480 --> 01:37:47,280
They weren't able to shoot that
at like the actual station

1755
01:37:47,280 --> 01:37:50,880
because it looked too modern.
They found like another one.

1756
01:37:50,880 --> 01:37:52,000
Nearby.
That worked.

1757
01:37:52,000 --> 01:37:56,040
Better sort of thing, but then
they to.

1758
01:37:56,040 --> 01:37:59,880
Get all the.
Wall sequences, so like the the

1759
01:37:59,880 --> 01:38:02,000
kind of border with the wall
building and all that.

1760
01:38:02,000 --> 01:38:06,560
That was all in real call.
I think it's how you pronounce

1761
01:38:06,560 --> 01:38:07,200
it.
Poland.

1762
01:38:09,840 --> 01:38:15,000
It's so Kaminsky and other
people talked about like this

1763
01:38:15,000 --> 01:38:18,600
was like on the border.
So it used to be a part of

1764
01:38:18,600 --> 01:38:21,320
Germany.
So it had like very German

1765
01:38:21,320 --> 01:38:24,760
architecture.
But then also like in Berlin,

1766
01:38:25,520 --> 01:38:29,600
everything's kind of been
rebuilt and so you don't really

1767
01:38:29,600 --> 01:38:35,640
have anything that looks like
early 60s Berlin anymore.

1768
01:38:35,920 --> 01:38:39,600
Whereas they found in this town
in Poland, there were still

1769
01:38:39,600 --> 01:38:44,000
some, you know, a good bit of
streets that had very like 60s

1770
01:38:44,560 --> 01:38:50,200
Berlin feel to them, even like,
you know, bombed out St. kind of

1771
01:38:50,200 --> 01:38:53,840
stuff going on.
And so, yeah, they.

1772
01:38:54,440 --> 01:38:58,000
I mean they built.
A wall, I think, I think

1773
01:38:58,000 --> 01:39:02,400
Spielberg's had a good like 300
yards of wall there along one of

1774
01:39:02,400 --> 01:39:07,280
those streets.
They even had like advisors of

1775
01:39:07,280 --> 01:39:10,720
people that were there when it
went up and were there when it

1776
01:39:10,720 --> 01:39:14,880
was up that kind of like advised
them on what to do for that,

1777
01:39:14,880 --> 01:39:18,680
what it was like.
So yeah, I mean, they really.

1778
01:39:18,680 --> 01:39:22,240
Went for it.
For that, for that, yeah, I had

1779
01:39:22,240 --> 01:39:23,880
this weird, this weird life
thing that.

1780
01:39:23,880 --> 01:39:27,120
I do.
Is I like to see pieces of the

1781
01:39:27,120 --> 01:39:31,960
Berlin Wall they're like in
museums and yeah, presidential

1782
01:39:31,960 --> 01:39:34,480
libraries and stuff like all
over the place now like they're

1783
01:39:34,480 --> 01:39:36,560
just all over the place, huh.
OK, they're use.

1784
01:39:36,800 --> 01:39:38,160
They're usually set up somewhere
where you.

1785
01:39:38,160 --> 01:39:39,600
Can.
Like touch them and like get

1786
01:39:39,600 --> 01:39:42,320
real close to them and stuff.
They're not like they I've never

1787
01:39:42,320 --> 01:39:45,440
been to a piece that's like a
walled off wall.

1788
01:39:45,440 --> 01:39:47,320
Like it's always something you
can like interact with.

1789
01:39:47,320 --> 01:39:50,160
Yeah.
And I don't know why.

1790
01:39:50,160 --> 01:39:55,240
I The first one I ever saw was
at the the George the Bush

1791
01:39:55,240 --> 01:39:57,200
President Presidential Library.
And College Station in.

1792
01:39:57,200 --> 01:40:01,040
Texas.
And it just like really struck

1793
01:40:01,040 --> 01:40:03,360
me, I mean, because that's like
a the wall, yeah, it's like a

1794
01:40:03,360 --> 01:40:05,120
huge deal.
It's a huge thing.

1795
01:40:05,520 --> 01:40:10,200
And like, it's a symbolic,
hugely symbolic, but like actual

1796
01:40:10,200 --> 01:40:14,080
literal thing too.
And it's always neat to see.

1797
01:40:14,080 --> 01:40:17,720
I've seen a half dozen pieces of
it standing up in various

1798
01:40:17,720 --> 01:40:21,240
museums and stuff now and.
I'm gonna have to keep an eye

1799
01:40:21,240 --> 01:40:22,280
out for that now.
It's a thrill.

1800
01:40:22,280 --> 01:40:23,640
I'm.
Trying to put the whole wall

1801
01:40:23,640 --> 01:40:25,320
back together in.
My mind, yeah, that's what I'm

1802
01:40:25,320 --> 01:40:27,560
trying to do.
So one day you got to experience

1803
01:40:27,560 --> 01:40:29,960
all the pieces that are still in
existence.

1804
01:40:31,880 --> 01:40:36,400
It is cool though, like there's
not very many like important

1805
01:40:36,400 --> 01:40:38,160
pieces of.
History like that that you can.

1806
01:40:38,160 --> 01:40:41,560
Just go up and touch.
Yeah, there's something very

1807
01:40:41,560 --> 01:40:43,280
like tactile.
About that, that I'm sure.

1808
01:40:43,280 --> 01:40:45,960
Is yeah, interesting.
I've never asked I.

1809
01:40:45,960 --> 01:40:47,520
Want to one of?
These days, I'm going to ask.

1810
01:40:47,920 --> 01:40:50,360
One of the museum curators, one
of these museums where I see

1811
01:40:50,360 --> 01:40:52,560
this thing, I'm like, why can
you always touch this?

1812
01:40:52,560 --> 01:40:53,880
Yeah, like I can't touch
anything else.

1813
01:40:53,880 --> 01:40:56,320
I guess you can't mess it up.
It's a cement wall, always.

1814
01:40:56,760 --> 01:40:58,440
Touch the concrete wall.
Yeah, you know.

1815
01:41:00,040 --> 01:41:03,800
Oh man, yeah, I mean.
They did.

1816
01:41:03,840 --> 01:41:06,760
So, you know, I guess that's
where stock housing comes in.

1817
01:41:06,880 --> 01:41:08,720
They did a really good job with
that.

1818
01:41:10,160 --> 01:41:16,640
The, the only other location
that that I really like noted

1819
01:41:16,640 --> 01:41:21,400
was the Glenna Key Bridge, which
is they kind of have, they even

1820
01:41:21,400 --> 01:41:27,840
have now a sign up that says
Bridge of spies kind of

1821
01:41:27,840 --> 01:41:33,080
commemorating this, this moment.
But but yeah, they were there

1822
01:41:33,080 --> 01:41:39,840
for like 6 nights.
They they so this bridge.

1823
01:41:39,840 --> 01:41:43,360
Is like it connects.
Berlin to Potsdam, it's like the

1824
01:41:43,360 --> 01:41:46,960
East West connection.
And so that's why it was so

1825
01:41:46,960 --> 01:41:50,320
important and it was closed all
during this time.

1826
01:41:50,320 --> 01:41:56,320
It was closed to civilian
traffic and it wasn't open up

1827
01:41:56,320 --> 01:41:57,200
again.
For traffic.

1828
01:41:57,200 --> 01:42:02,040
Until after reunification.
So, so yeah, they, what you see

1829
01:42:02,040 --> 01:42:04,960
in the movie, it was just like
that this whole time, that whole

1830
01:42:04,960 --> 01:42:08,520
time just I guess they.
Probably.

1831
01:42:08,960 --> 01:42:11,800
I'm assuming they.
Had, you know, the towers with

1832
01:42:12,160 --> 01:42:14,680
people with rifles up in them
just constantly.

1833
01:42:14,680 --> 01:42:19,560
And yeah, like the DMZ in Korea.
You know, yeah, yeah.

1834
01:42:19,600 --> 01:42:21,520
So just wild.
It's just.

1835
01:42:21,520 --> 01:42:26,720
Wild to me to think about a
city, you know?

1836
01:42:26,800 --> 01:42:27,360
I was.
I was.

1837
01:42:27,360 --> 01:42:31,400
Born after this.
All you know, kind of was

1838
01:42:31,400 --> 01:42:33,040
resolved and so it's.
Just.

1839
01:42:34,920 --> 01:42:36,840
You know, I guess.
Korea just feels so.

1840
01:42:37,600 --> 01:42:40,440
So distant.
And yeah, I don't really think

1841
01:42:40,440 --> 01:42:42,040
about like that.
In Korea.

1842
01:42:42,040 --> 01:42:45,480
Much but so it's just wild to me
to think about there's here's

1843
01:42:45,480 --> 01:42:48,160
this city that's like split in
half it's.

1844
01:42:48,160 --> 01:42:50,760
Literally like.
You mean you can have?

1845
01:42:51,120 --> 01:42:53,880
Aunts and uncles on the.
Other side yeah.

1846
01:42:53,960 --> 01:42:57,840
It's just, yeah, just mind
blowing to think about that that

1847
01:42:57,840 --> 01:43:03,000
was going on.
Yeah, I mean.

1848
01:43:03,360 --> 01:43:06,560
And then you have like.
They talked about one day

1849
01:43:06,560 --> 01:43:07,920
they're.
Celebrating the 25th.

1850
01:43:07,920 --> 01:43:10,680
Anniversary of the wall coming
down and the next day they're

1851
01:43:10,680 --> 01:43:12,400
shooting Tom Hanks on that
bridge.

1852
01:43:12,520 --> 01:43:16,400
So I mean, yeah, just.
Well, so.

1853
01:43:16,560 --> 01:43:20,360
I mean, they had high emotions.
On set, Yeah, with all that

1854
01:43:20,360 --> 01:43:24,360
going on too.
I.

1855
01:43:25,160 --> 01:43:31,120
Mean freezing cold.
And then the other cool thing.

1856
01:43:31,120 --> 01:43:36,160
About the bridge was Spielberg
and I guess some others of the

1857
01:43:36,240 --> 01:43:40,840
probably Tom Hanks, I'm sure.
And other people got invited to

1858
01:43:40,840 --> 01:43:45,240
meet the German Chancellor
Merkel, who was.

1859
01:43:45,640 --> 01:43:47,000
I had to look it up.
I didn't.

1860
01:43:47,200 --> 01:43:49,920
I don't really know a lot about
German politics, but basically

1861
01:43:49,920 --> 01:43:52,440
the chancellor of Germany is
like the president.

1862
01:43:53,280 --> 01:43:55,600
Yeah.
And so it's kind of yeah.

1863
01:43:55,640 --> 01:43:57,360
I mean not exactly, but.
It.

1864
01:43:57,760 --> 01:44:00,520
For all intents and purposes,
it's yeah, she's like the

1865
01:44:00,520 --> 01:44:01,840
administrative leader.
I think it's kind.

1866
01:44:01,840 --> 01:44:04,800
Of more like the Prime Minister
in sure, right in England,

1867
01:44:04,840 --> 01:44:05,240
right?
Yeah.

1868
01:44:07,080 --> 01:44:08,880
So they got to meet.
Her but and then she actually

1869
01:44:08,880 --> 01:44:12,440
came out to the bridge for the
to the set one day and, you

1870
01:44:12,440 --> 01:44:14,400
know, meet shaking hands and
stuff.

1871
01:44:14,400 --> 01:44:15,560
So I thought that was cool.
Yeah.

1872
01:44:15,600 --> 01:44:16,640
Go meet Tom Hanks.
Sure.

1873
01:44:16,640 --> 01:44:17,360
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.

1874
01:44:18,720 --> 01:44:19,880
Why I became Chancellor in the
1st?

1875
01:44:19,880 --> 01:44:21,000
Place.
Because this happened.

1876
01:44:22,840 --> 01:44:26,120
Yeah.
As far as the the way the movie

1877
01:44:26,120 --> 01:44:30,760
looks, I think it looks.
Really good I think.

1878
01:44:30,760 --> 01:44:31,920
Kaminsky did a good.
Job.

1879
01:44:31,920 --> 01:44:37,360
We we talked a little bit about
that, but I guess like the most

1880
01:44:37,360 --> 01:44:41,440
like I guess interesting.
Thing that's like a.

1881
01:44:41,520 --> 01:44:46,760
A strong choices to the to kind
of split with a with a fade to

1882
01:44:46,760 --> 01:44:51,360
black fade back in in the middle
of the film from like a colorful

1883
01:44:51,360 --> 01:44:56,280
vibrant New York to like the
blue Gray the classic Kaminsky

1884
01:44:56,280 --> 01:45:04,320
blue Gray cold haziness of
Berlin yeah I I don't know I I.

1885
01:45:04,960 --> 01:45:06,600
I think a lot about this every
time I watch it.

1886
01:45:06,600 --> 01:45:10,160
Like how much?
How much I like the look of the

1887
01:45:10,160 --> 01:45:17,960
film or not I I don't know.
Spielberg kind of goes through,

1888
01:45:17,960 --> 01:45:20,200
I mean.
He's in the middle of it, right?

1889
01:45:20,400 --> 01:45:25,760
He's in the middle of it with
this movie, but his he likes a

1890
01:45:25,760 --> 01:45:26,800
lot of.
Blue and grey.

1891
01:45:26,800 --> 01:45:28,240
There's a lot of blue.
And green, a lot of these

1892
01:45:28,240 --> 01:45:32,280
movies, and if he's not blue and
grey, he's deeply saturated

1893
01:45:32,280 --> 01:45:35,760
colors, Sure.
And there's kind of nothing like

1894
01:45:35,760 --> 01:45:38,880
in the 90's, the movies felt a
little bit more real.

1895
01:45:39,240 --> 01:45:41,400
And he's like moved far from
real.

1896
01:45:42,360 --> 01:45:44,880
I feel like in all of these
movies in the 2000s, it's almost

1897
01:45:44,880 --> 01:45:48,160
like going back to the 80's, the
way his movies felt in the 80s.

1898
01:45:48,360 --> 01:45:53,360
This very like hazy fantasy feel
very hazy fantasy even when the

1899
01:45:53,360 --> 01:45:56,440
story is very.
Realistic and I don't, I don't

1900
01:45:56,440 --> 01:45:58,960
know, like I, there's part of me
that would like him to work with

1901
01:45:58,960 --> 01:46:03,400
someone other than Jonas
Kaminski because I, they start

1902
01:46:03,400 --> 01:46:08,800
to feel a little samey.
And as one reason I love, I

1903
01:46:08,800 --> 01:46:12,200
think it works really well in
Lincoln because you can

1904
01:46:12,560 --> 01:46:15,160
everything's muddy and smoky and
that just kind of works a

1905
01:46:15,160 --> 01:46:16,520
little.
It like makes more sense.

1906
01:46:17,760 --> 01:46:20,400
But yeah, but that's why West
Side Story, I love watching West

1907
01:46:20,400 --> 01:46:23,880
Side Story so much because West
Side Story feels different,

1908
01:46:24,040 --> 01:46:26,600
right?
It looks kind of different.

1909
01:46:26,880 --> 01:46:32,600
It's much sharper, less less
magic haze everywhere.

1910
01:46:32,600 --> 01:46:37,080
And I don't know, I just, I, I
like that a lot.

1911
01:46:37,080 --> 01:46:38,280
Fableman's too.
Fableman's.

1912
01:46:38,280 --> 01:46:42,200
Is not is not magic not magic
glowy lights in the same way

1913
01:46:43,120 --> 01:46:46,200
super realistic.
And I I'm hoping I'm optimistic

1914
01:46:46,360 --> 01:46:50,880
that maybe Spielberg and Youngs
have moved out of there have

1915
01:46:50,880 --> 01:46:53,160
moved out of there this this
era.

1916
01:46:53,960 --> 01:46:54,880
Yeah, I don't know.
I'm.

1917
01:46:56,000 --> 01:46:58,080
I love the movie and I
understand why they did, but

1918
01:46:58,080 --> 01:46:59,600
they did.
But I'm just a little bit like,

1919
01:46:59,720 --> 01:47:03,040
OK, yeah.
I mean, it's, it's like it's.

1920
01:47:03,240 --> 01:47:04,400
The way.
I feel about it.

1921
01:47:04,400 --> 01:47:10,600
So you know, I've just I've been
watching these like so the last

1922
01:47:10,600 --> 01:47:13,280
one I've I've kind of like
watched and covered.

1923
01:47:13,280 --> 01:47:17,040
I haven't done Lincoln yet, but
you just spoke to that.

1924
01:47:17,040 --> 01:47:22,960
But war horses is a it has that
feel of like The Color Purple

1925
01:47:22,960 --> 01:47:24,160
empire of the.
Sun.

1926
01:47:24,560 --> 01:47:29,680
Where it's like, it's almost
like there's this like fantasy

1927
01:47:29,680 --> 01:47:33,760
haze of like, yeah, this is
like, this is a story.

1928
01:47:33,760 --> 01:47:35,440
But it's.
Also, like a fable.

1929
01:47:36,240 --> 01:47:39,960
Yeah.
And to be honest, like I didn't

1930
01:47:39,960 --> 01:47:44,640
feel that as much in this coming
off of like some movies where

1931
01:47:44,640 --> 01:47:47,760
that's definitely there and in
this one it feels gifted

1932
01:47:47,800 --> 01:47:49,680
warhorse like you would
definitely this would

1933
01:47:49,680 --> 01:47:51,360
definitely.
Feel much more this grounded,

1934
01:47:51,360 --> 01:47:53,640
this feels like toned down from
that so.

1935
01:47:54,160 --> 01:47:57,040
It could just be because I've
been watching all these

1936
01:47:57,040 --> 01:48:01,000
Spielberg movies that to me this
was kind of like more.

1937
01:48:01,000 --> 01:48:02,920
Of a breath.
Of fresh air, but I could see if

1938
01:48:02,920 --> 01:48:06,320
you just like, jump into this
once you get to Berlin.

1939
01:48:07,120 --> 01:48:10,960
Yeah, it's there.
I guess to be fair, it sort of

1940
01:48:10,960 --> 01:48:14,800
makes sense to have like
haziness in Berlin in the

1941
01:48:14,800 --> 01:48:17,800
winter.
Oh sure, but I mean everyone

1942
01:48:17,800 --> 01:48:21,000
smokes like chimneys in.
You know, the United States too,

1943
01:48:21,000 --> 01:48:24,120
so like it's you and I can
understand why that kind of

1944
01:48:24,120 --> 01:48:27,240
stuff would be there, but did
you, did you read the?

1945
01:48:27,360 --> 01:48:29,800
Did you hear?
The thing about the the way they

1946
01:48:29,800 --> 01:48:32,600
did that.
Speaking of cold, the breath.

1947
01:48:33,080 --> 01:48:34,840
Yeah.
Did you did you see this?

1948
01:48:34,840 --> 01:48:36,040
This is.
So cool, yeah.

1949
01:48:37,040 --> 01:48:39,760
It was in and it has one
particular scene.

1950
01:48:39,760 --> 01:48:42,080
One particular scene.
In the in the offices there,

1951
01:48:42,200 --> 01:48:45,720
yeah.
In, in East Germany and the way

1952
01:48:45,720 --> 01:48:48,280
he came up to do that, because
they, they would lose the

1953
01:48:48,280 --> 01:48:50,480
breath, they turned the lights
on because it would dry the air

1954
01:48:50,560 --> 01:48:51,840
out.
Yeah.

1955
01:48:53,240 --> 01:48:57,080
And so they instead, what he did
is he turned the lights back

1956
01:48:57,080 --> 01:49:01,760
off, put people in black masks
so you couldn't see their face

1957
01:49:01,760 --> 01:49:04,920
and had them say the lines.
And then they digitally put that

1958
01:49:04,920 --> 01:49:06,920
breath onto the actors.
Yeah.

1959
01:49:06,920 --> 01:49:08,800
So cool.
Yeah.

1960
01:49:09,040 --> 01:49:12,600
But a way to get that that haze,
that real haze back in there,

1961
01:49:12,600 --> 01:49:14,720
even though you're drying
everything out with your

1962
01:49:14,920 --> 01:49:17,280
Hollywood life, you know?
Yeah.

1963
01:49:18,200 --> 01:49:22,920
Yeah, I think he shared that in
the in that DGA thing.

1964
01:49:22,920 --> 01:49:25,960
Yeah, that's Scorsese.
Yeah, I had so.

1965
01:49:26,040 --> 01:49:27,480
Smart.
I had forgot to note it down,

1966
01:49:27,480 --> 01:49:28,840
but yeah.
I'm glad you brought that up.

1967
01:49:28,840 --> 01:49:32,840
Because it is very cool and it
reminds me that like, you know

1968
01:49:32,840 --> 01:49:37,760
the.
That Kaminski hazy light thing.

1969
01:49:37,760 --> 01:49:41,040
Has been has become such a.
Spielberg, like, cliche almost,

1970
01:49:41,440 --> 01:49:46,440
but there are usual.
Almost always there are diegetic

1971
01:49:46,440 --> 01:49:47,480
reasons for it.
Yeah.

1972
01:49:47,520 --> 01:49:52,320
In the films, you know, So it's
not just like a lazy cheat, Like

1973
01:49:52,320 --> 01:49:54,480
there's reasons for what they do
and they take them in there.

1974
01:49:54,480 --> 01:49:57,680
Yeah, for sure.
Even if it does feel a bit rote

1975
01:49:57,880 --> 01:49:58,880
at some point in here.
Right.

1976
01:49:59,720 --> 01:50:01,480
Yeah, yeah.
And I think.

1977
01:50:03,040 --> 01:50:05,560
I think like.
It's at its height on.

1978
01:50:05,560 --> 01:50:09,720
The bridge, probably, Yeah.
The haziness and the Blues.

1979
01:50:10,000 --> 01:50:14,360
With the, you know, filming at
twilight, you get that deep blue

1980
01:50:14,560 --> 01:50:18,000
sky and the reflection on the
water.

1981
01:50:18,000 --> 01:50:21,720
And yeah, they love that stuff.
And so.

1982
01:50:22,000 --> 01:50:25,880
They're probably at their most
like Spielberg Kaminski collab

1983
01:50:26,480 --> 01:50:31,360
with the bridge stuff for sure.
Yeah.

1984
01:50:33,640 --> 01:50:34,840
Yeah, you know what?
I what?

1985
01:50:34,840 --> 01:50:36,000
I really think about this movie
when.

1986
01:50:36,000 --> 01:50:38,880
I watch it.
Is I feel like this is a black

1987
01:50:38,880 --> 01:50:42,840
and white movie shot in color is
kind of how it feels to me.

1988
01:50:43,040 --> 01:50:45,440
I can see that, yeah.
And it it kind.

1989
01:50:45,440 --> 01:50:49,120
Of follows a lot of those.
Kind of classic ways of lighting

1990
01:50:49,120 --> 01:50:52,520
things and staging things and
framing things and all that kind

1991
01:50:52,520 --> 01:50:55,840
of stuff, yeah.
And so when we get to the, we

1992
01:50:55,840 --> 01:50:59,440
get this stuff in, in Germany, I
mean, it's so blue and grey, it

1993
01:50:59,440 --> 01:51:01,400
might as well be black and
white, you know?

1994
01:51:02,680 --> 01:51:06,160
And but even the, even the
American stuff feels like, yeah,

1995
01:51:06,920 --> 01:51:07,920
it feels like a black and white
movie.

1996
01:51:08,000 --> 01:51:12,120
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The the the other thing.

1997
01:51:12,120 --> 01:51:13,760
I wanted.
To talk about what the structure

1998
01:51:13,760 --> 01:51:17,000
of the movie, which is, you
know, this is, I put it in the,

1999
01:51:17,040 --> 01:51:19,880
in our like editing and post
production stuff, even though

2000
01:51:19,880 --> 01:51:23,960
like really the way Spielberg
and Michael Kahn work the the

2001
01:51:23,960 --> 01:51:26,680
post production is kind of
happening during the production.

2002
01:51:28,120 --> 01:51:34,080
It's kind of how they how they
make their movies so quickly

2003
01:51:34,080 --> 01:51:39,200
because they're doing less like
they're, they're, they know.

2004
01:51:39,200 --> 01:51:41,320
What?
Takes they need to do before

2005
01:51:41,320 --> 01:51:45,240
they like strike a set because
they're they're editing as they

2006
01:51:45,240 --> 01:51:47,360
go.
So there's not a whole, they

2007
01:51:47,360 --> 01:51:49,600
don't have to go back and do a
whole lot of reshooting because

2008
01:51:49,600 --> 01:51:51,600
they're kind of getting what
they need as they go.

2009
01:51:53,080 --> 01:51:58,080
But one of the things that came
out of that was the the original

2010
01:51:58,080 --> 01:52:02,680
opening was going to be the
Donovan scene that that we get

2011
01:52:02,920 --> 01:52:05,000
as his introduction.
Yeah.

2012
01:52:05,360 --> 01:52:06,800
But then that's not my guy.
Yeah.

2013
01:52:06,840 --> 01:52:08,440
Not my guy.
Exactly that.

2014
01:52:08,520 --> 01:52:11,120
That whole, that whole scene.
With like the the traffic

2015
01:52:11,120 --> 01:52:14,800
accident, which is great, yeah.
They're calling him my guy,

2016
01:52:15,840 --> 01:52:20,080
yeah.
And so they that.

2017
01:52:20,080 --> 01:52:21,680
Was.
That was what they had planned,

2018
01:52:22,440 --> 01:52:26,520
but then they they shot the
whole like able sequence with

2019
01:52:26,520 --> 01:52:31,160
the with the, you know, him
painting, going out to to paint

2020
01:52:31,160 --> 01:52:36,480
with the getting the nickel and
the whole like chase scene,

2021
01:52:36,480 --> 01:52:38,840
which I think is.
Incredible.

2022
01:52:39,480 --> 01:52:42,160
Yeah, so fun.
Yeah, the spy scene.

2023
01:52:42,240 --> 01:52:43,160
The one, the one.
Spy scene.

2024
01:52:43,160 --> 01:52:45,240
It is the one spy.
Scene, Yeah.

2025
01:52:45,960 --> 01:52:50,040
It reminded me of.
Funnily enough, it reminded me

2026
01:52:50,040 --> 01:52:56,000
of the Taking of Pelham 123.
Sort of just like in a.

2027
01:52:56,120 --> 01:52:58,960
In the subway, people chasing.
Each other and getting lost in

2028
01:52:58,960 --> 01:53:02,000
crowds and it just reminded me
of that.

2029
01:53:02,400 --> 01:53:05,440
I watched that.
Movie not terribly long ago for

2030
01:53:06,080 --> 01:53:10,240
I think for a draft of I think
it was like a we did a hostages

2031
01:53:10,320 --> 01:53:11,680
draft.
Oh yeah.

2032
01:53:11,720 --> 01:53:14,200
So I had watched a great movie.
The movie's perfect, yeah.

2033
01:53:15,480 --> 01:53:20,000
So it reminded me of that.
Not exactly a spy movie.

2034
01:53:20,000 --> 01:53:22,080
But in a.
Hostage movies in a similar

2035
01:53:22,080 --> 01:53:23,240
vein, I guess.
Yeah.

2036
01:53:24,080 --> 01:53:26,040
And so.
I thought that.

2037
01:53:26,040 --> 01:53:27,800
Was so good.
It was, it was like a little

2038
01:53:27,800 --> 01:53:32,240
like silent movie opening.
Yeah.

2039
01:53:32,240 --> 01:53:33,600
Yeah.
Not, not really.

2040
01:53:33,600 --> 01:53:36,560
Anything being said just.
Like communicating everything

2041
01:53:36,560 --> 01:53:40,880
with, you know, the camera work,
the the editing, the the

2042
01:53:40,880 --> 01:53:44,920
glances.
It was very, very good.

2043
01:53:45,760 --> 01:53:46,800
Yeah.
It's really fun.

2044
01:53:47,000 --> 01:53:48,120
It really puts you in the
moment.

2045
01:53:49,000 --> 01:53:51,600
Like in the time frame moment
and then let me know what kind

2046
01:53:51,600 --> 01:53:53,800
of movie it's gonna be too.
Yeah.

2047
01:53:53,800 --> 01:53:55,280
And it shows that he's really a
spy.

2048
01:53:55,520 --> 01:53:57,080
It's important you to know that
he's really a spy.

2049
01:53:57,080 --> 01:53:58,520
It really is.
That's that's important.

2050
01:53:58,840 --> 01:54:01,000
I love the little nickel.
I.

2051
01:54:01,000 --> 01:54:02,560
Know.
Yeah, that's like the kind.

2052
01:54:02,560 --> 01:54:04,840
Of thing I would have read.
About when I was a kid reading

2053
01:54:04,840 --> 01:54:07,040
about, like, true spycraft
stuff, whatever.

2054
01:54:07,480 --> 01:54:10,520
And I want to build nickel like
that, and I could just, like,

2055
01:54:10,560 --> 01:54:14,040
open up and take stuff out.
Yeah, well, they like handmade.

2056
01:54:15,000 --> 01:54:19,240
All of the the spycraft stuff
and and kind of talked about how

2057
01:54:19,240 --> 01:54:22,640
like the like all the spycraft.
Stuff in James.

2058
01:54:22,640 --> 01:54:26,880
Bond was was based off of like
real stuff like this that they

2059
01:54:26,880 --> 01:54:32,920
really had in, you know, in the
50s and, and early 60s for, for

2060
01:54:32,920 --> 01:54:35,560
stuff like this.
Yeah.

2061
01:54:36,400 --> 01:54:42,080
But yeah, the the really like, I
guess like shooting that

2062
01:54:42,080 --> 01:54:48,560
sequence, Spielberg kind of like
had the wise idea of like, no,

2063
01:54:48,560 --> 01:54:53,160
this I think this is our opening
like yeah and yeah, very.

2064
01:54:53,160 --> 01:54:57,200
Smart Scorsese.
In that interview, like he went

2065
01:54:57,200 --> 01:55:01,120
on and on about loving this
opening.

2066
01:55:01,120 --> 01:55:03,080
And lack the.
Visual brilliance.

2067
01:55:03,080 --> 01:55:07,760
And he was really like, it was
really some like, you know,

2068
01:55:08,000 --> 01:55:11,320
you're my buddy and I'm going to
like kind of lift you up above

2069
01:55:11,320 --> 01:55:14,640
the rest kind of talk.
But it's but it was all true.

2070
01:55:14,640 --> 01:55:18,840
He was talking about like some,
some directors will get a script

2071
01:55:18,840 --> 01:55:23,640
like this and get great dialogue
actors like Tom Hanks and

2072
01:55:23,640 --> 01:55:27,560
they'll say, OK, my movie is a
dialogue movie because it's so

2073
01:55:27,560 --> 01:55:29,360
well written.
It's so well acted.

2074
01:55:29,560 --> 01:55:31,520
That's what my movie is, is the
dialogue.

2075
01:55:31,920 --> 01:55:35,520
But it takes people like.
Mike Spielberg.

2076
01:55:35,720 --> 01:55:41,880
To to have that yes, but like
that's not the whole movie you

2077
01:55:42,280 --> 01:55:45,520
so you start off with this
visual sequence where there's

2078
01:55:45,520 --> 01:55:48,600
nothing being said but you're
communicating everything you

2079
01:55:48,600 --> 01:55:53,200
need to communicate visually
yeah, even just.

2080
01:55:53,200 --> 01:55:56,920
That opening?
Image Yeah, Norman Rockwell.

2081
01:55:56,920 --> 01:56:00,120
Reference.
Yeah, the mirrors, yeah, yeah,

2082
01:56:00,440 --> 01:56:00,840
for.
Sure.

2083
01:56:01,120 --> 01:56:02,720
I mean, Spielberg loves
Rockwell.

2084
01:56:02,760 --> 01:56:06,240
Yeah, he's a collector, I think.
Yeah, he is.

2085
01:56:06,400 --> 01:56:12,680
There's a there's a good book
where Lucas and Spielberg both

2086
01:56:12,680 --> 01:56:16,480
write about the importance of
Rockwell in their own, like in

2087
01:56:16,480 --> 01:56:20,200
their own work and like, talk
about the different, like,

2088
01:56:20,640 --> 01:56:23,600
paintings that they own and why
and like how it's just like

2089
01:56:23,760 --> 01:56:26,160
influenced them and stuff.
It's a cool book about them and

2090
01:56:26,160 --> 01:56:28,080
Rockwell.
But I was going to say the other

2091
01:56:28,080 --> 01:56:29,360
thing about that opening
sequence.

2092
01:56:29,400 --> 01:56:32,440
The reason I the reason one
reason I enjoy it because this

2093
01:56:32,440 --> 01:56:34,880
is a very talky movie.
And, you know, if you start

2094
01:56:34,880 --> 01:56:38,840
that, if you start the movie
with that, not my guy, seeing

2095
01:56:39,080 --> 01:56:43,320
what you're telling the audience
is this is a movie where you're

2096
01:56:43,320 --> 01:56:47,120
going to enjoy watching people
talk to each other, you know,

2097
01:56:47,480 --> 01:56:50,640
and Aaron Sorkin and so key,
yeah, could key into that, you

2098
01:56:50,640 --> 01:56:54,240
know, and that's really not how
the movie works.

2099
01:56:54,240 --> 01:56:56,720
I mean there's great dialogues
and it's fun to watch the

2100
01:56:56,720 --> 01:57:01,720
negotiate but the most of the
movie is isn't the story is told

2101
01:57:01,720 --> 01:57:06,000
to the edits and that's what
becomes like more fun to watch.

2102
01:57:06,120 --> 01:57:08,480
The more times I've watched the
movie The more what I really

2103
01:57:08,480 --> 01:57:15,640
enjoy is how one scene will set
something up and then the next

2104
01:57:15,640 --> 01:57:18,000
scene will answer that thing
that's set up in the previous

2105
01:57:18,000 --> 01:57:20,160
scene.
It's like question answer,

2106
01:57:20,160 --> 01:57:21,560
question answer, question
answer.

2107
01:57:21,560 --> 01:57:24,960
But the question that is asked
in the 1 scene is not answered

2108
01:57:24,960 --> 01:57:28,360
in that scene.
And it like is constantly like

2109
01:57:29,120 --> 01:57:34,960
shifting your focus back on what
the, the, what is at stake

2110
01:57:34,960 --> 01:57:37,760
morally or civically.
I would say civically, what's at

2111
01:57:37,760 --> 01:57:42,160
stake civically in each scene?
So like, like in the courtroom,

2112
01:57:42,160 --> 01:57:46,360
you get like all rise and then
you don't actually see like then

2113
01:57:46,360 --> 01:57:50,720
you cut to the classroom and the
kids rising for the Pledge of

2114
01:57:50,720 --> 01:57:54,240
Allegiance, you know?
And so, like, it takes like here

2115
01:57:54,240 --> 01:57:57,440
we're having this very important
court case, but what's at stake

2116
01:57:57,440 --> 01:58:02,200
here is the soul of the nation.
It's like what we're teaching

2117
01:58:02,200 --> 01:58:04,680
kids in school, you know, like
that.

2118
01:58:04,680 --> 01:58:07,000
That's, that's what this is
really, it's a civics lesson,

2119
01:58:07,560 --> 01:58:09,480
but it's like the best kind of
civics lesson.

2120
01:58:09,720 --> 01:58:12,400
This is what we're fighting for
is the future of this country.

2121
01:58:12,920 --> 01:58:14,640
And so it does that throughout
the entire movie.

2122
01:58:14,640 --> 01:58:18,160
And by starting the movie with a
scene that is mostly silent,

2123
01:58:18,520 --> 01:58:21,680
that is edited together, like
you train the audience, you're

2124
01:58:21,680 --> 01:58:24,400
going to be watching edits.
That's what this film is not

2125
01:58:24,400 --> 01:58:28,200
just conversations and it's I
mean, I think it's why the movie

2126
01:58:28,200 --> 01:58:30,880
is one that you can that I can
keep coming back to and watching

2127
01:58:31,120 --> 01:58:35,320
and enjoying again and again and
again is because it is it's that

2128
01:58:35,320 --> 01:58:38,480
kind of movie.
Like it said, it's a movie

2129
01:58:38,480 --> 01:58:39,600
movie.
It's not something.

2130
01:58:39,600 --> 01:58:41,520
I could read.
And get just as much out of or

2131
01:58:41,520 --> 01:58:43,880
watch a black, black theater
production up and get just as

2132
01:58:43,880 --> 01:58:45,240
much out of.
It's a movie, right.

2133
01:58:45,240 --> 01:58:46,480
I think the only movie can do
right.

2134
01:58:46,640 --> 01:58:47,920
Exactly.
Yeah, Yeah.

2135
01:58:48,000 --> 01:58:50,000
And I think so.
One of the things.

2136
01:58:50,040 --> 01:58:54,520
I've I've kind of like learned,
I think, especially in this

2137
01:58:54,520 --> 01:58:59,120
Spielberg series and it, you
know, it's something that, you

2138
01:58:59,120 --> 01:59:04,920
know, I'm maybe very well could
have learned in the Wesser Nolan

2139
01:59:04,920 --> 01:59:08,320
series if I would have done them
like later on in this endeavor.

2140
01:59:09,000 --> 01:59:14,000
But just like being so far into
this with two full directors and

2141
01:59:14,000 --> 01:59:18,040
then one, you know, director
that feels like.

2142
01:59:18,360 --> 01:59:21,320
Could be two.
More full directors so far,

2143
01:59:21,320 --> 01:59:24,560
yeah, is.
That.

2144
01:59:25,800 --> 01:59:31,280
I think the Spielberg Michael
Kahn collaboration is probably

2145
01:59:31,280 --> 01:59:36,120
the more important than the John
Williams collab, the Kaminsky

2146
01:59:36,120 --> 01:59:39,720
collaboration.
That Spielberg Michael Kahn

2147
01:59:39,720 --> 01:59:45,040
collaboration is the most
important collab of his whole

2148
01:59:45,040 --> 01:59:46,720
career.
Yeah, for sure.

2149
01:59:47,200 --> 01:59:52,640
And I've, it's just I've, I've
learned so much more.

2150
01:59:52,640 --> 01:59:55,640
About.
Editing and the importance of

2151
01:59:55,640 --> 02:00:00,120
the edit going through this
series and not to say I mean

2152
02:00:00,360 --> 02:00:04,120
it's there in Wes Anderson and
Christopher Nolan absolutely

2153
02:00:04,200 --> 02:00:09,640
like obviously, but I guess just
like for me and this series and

2154
02:00:09,640 --> 02:00:12,880
seeing.
Spielberg and Michael Kahn talk

2155
02:00:12,880 --> 02:00:16,240
about, you know, the way they
edit and their their choices.

2156
02:00:16,640 --> 02:00:19,680
I've just learned a lot about
like the importance of that.

2157
02:00:21,280 --> 02:00:24,480
And, you know, I've heard people
say like, the story is in the

2158
02:00:24,480 --> 02:00:27,000
edit.
That's where the story is told.

2159
02:00:27,000 --> 02:00:31,320
And this has been this, this
series I think in particular has

2160
02:00:31,320 --> 02:00:35,600
just been like.
A a great.

2161
02:00:36,520 --> 02:00:41,080
Lesson in that, I guess a great
course in how the story is.

2162
02:00:41,080 --> 02:00:43,160
Told through the.
EDIT And yeah, this movie is

2163
02:00:43,560 --> 02:00:47,640
that like, you know, you
mentioned the cut to the

2164
02:00:47,640 --> 02:00:50,920
classroom, but I mean, even just
like it's all throughout the

2165
02:00:50,920 --> 02:00:53,680
movie, even just the.
Negotiations don't.

2166
02:00:53,680 --> 02:00:57,360
End in.
Resolve right you you cut out.

2167
02:00:57,360 --> 02:01:00,200
Of those scenes.
There's no decisions made.

2168
02:01:00,720 --> 02:01:04,000
There's no, that's right.
There's not even like really.

2169
02:01:04,000 --> 02:01:07,280
Like.
There's nothing sure at all,

2170
02:01:07,280 --> 02:01:08,560
right?
And because it's not resolved

2171
02:01:08,560 --> 02:01:09,880
till they show up at the bridge
until it.

2172
02:01:09,880 --> 02:01:11,400
Happens, right?
Yeah, until it.

2173
02:01:11,400 --> 02:01:14,640
Happens and it it can't be.
Right, All it is is he gets he

2174
02:01:14,640 --> 02:01:16,320
gets the question asked in the
scene.

2175
02:01:16,560 --> 02:01:20,160
He takes that question to the
next conversation, and the next,

2176
02:01:20,160 --> 02:01:23,480
and the next, and the next.
The CIA that he that he asked

2177
02:01:23,480 --> 02:01:25,600
the.
Question then they say did you

2178
02:01:25,600 --> 02:01:29,160
get an answer and he says no
yeah, we'll get an answer when

2179
02:01:29,160 --> 02:01:29,720
we all show up the.
Bridge.

2180
02:01:29,720 --> 02:01:32,640
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, but yeah, and it the.

2181
02:01:33,560 --> 02:01:37,480
But it's not just like a trick
to keep you, like, on edge.

2182
02:01:37,480 --> 02:01:39,400
That's just how it happened the
way it is.

2183
02:01:39,760 --> 02:01:41,560
Yeah, just what it is.
Yeah, for sure.

2184
02:01:42,960 --> 02:01:44,120
Yeah.
And so like, yeah.

2185
02:01:44,400 --> 02:01:47,320
I mean, it is a a trick to keep
you like on edge.

2186
02:01:47,440 --> 02:01:50,320
Like there's definitely like
intention there, but it's also

2187
02:01:50,320 --> 02:01:54,320
like it just is how it happened
and just how it works.

2188
02:01:54,320 --> 02:01:57,920
So it, yeah, it's like the
perfect, the perfect movie for

2189
02:01:57,920 --> 02:01:59,440
that.
Yeah.

2190
02:01:59,600 --> 02:02:02,680
Perfect story, yeah.
Yeah, go Michael Klein.

2191
02:02:02,760 --> 02:02:05,280
More love for Michael.
Yeah, he's editor.

2192
02:02:05,280 --> 02:02:07,640
They don't get enough attention,
especially with these great.

2193
02:02:07,640 --> 02:02:10,800
I mean, you think about like
Scorsese and Thelma Shoemaker,

2194
02:02:10,840 --> 02:02:16,640
you know, Sally Minky and and
Quentin Tarantino for the, you

2195
02:02:16,640 --> 02:02:19,080
know, first part of Tarantino's
career, like how important those

2196
02:02:19,440 --> 02:02:24,040
collaborate collaborations are
just different movies,

2197
02:02:24,720 --> 02:02:26,640
different, different careers
without this class.

2198
02:02:27,040 --> 02:02:30,160
Yeah, yeah, I've, I've.
Become a huge.

2199
02:02:30,160 --> 02:02:34,480
Advocate for editors shouting
out editors in this podcast.

2200
02:02:37,720 --> 02:02:39,760
I guess like a.
Wrapping up that sort of stuff

2201
02:02:41,240 --> 02:02:45,240
I, I kept hearing when I was
like listening to other people

2202
02:02:45,240 --> 02:02:49,840
talk like reviews of the time
talk about how like the trailers

2203
02:02:49,840 --> 02:02:52,000
like really did this movie
wrong.

2204
02:02:52,800 --> 02:02:55,400
They made it seem like it was
going to be like a more intense

2205
02:02:55,400 --> 02:02:59,200
spy thriller.
And it's just not that that sort

2206
02:02:59,200 --> 02:03:01,600
of movie.
But.

2207
02:03:02,360 --> 02:03:05,640
But yeah, also, this is really
like the last proper DreamWorks

2208
02:03:05,800 --> 02:03:11,280
movie, which doesn't get talked
about a lot because really at

2209
02:03:11,280 --> 02:03:14,560
this point, DreamWorks was being
restructured.

2210
02:03:15,440 --> 02:03:19,000
I mean, you have like DreamWorks
Animation has branched off and

2211
02:03:19,000 --> 02:03:20,520
they're kind of their own thing
now.

2212
02:03:21,720 --> 02:03:27,680
And at this point, DreamWorks is
really just kind of like a face.

2213
02:03:29,000 --> 02:03:31,720
Like you still get the
DreamWorks intros and stuff

2214
02:03:31,720 --> 02:03:34,840
after this, but they're not
really DreamWorks.

2215
02:03:34,840 --> 02:03:40,520
They're really financed by the
Indian company Reliance and

2216
02:03:40,840 --> 02:03:43,360
distributed by Disney's
Touchstone.

2217
02:03:43,880 --> 02:03:47,840
And then you just have the
DreamWorks intros and stuff on

2218
02:03:47,840 --> 02:03:48,880
there.
Because people.

2219
02:03:48,880 --> 02:03:55,160
Recognize it and so really this
is like I'm pretty sure this is

2220
02:03:55,160 --> 02:03:59,120
like the last like proper
DreamWorks movie.

2221
02:03:59,960 --> 02:04:04,040
Spielberg's stuff after this is
just is Amblin, just goes back

2222
02:04:04,040 --> 02:04:07,960
to be an Amblin, really.
So kind of.

2223
02:04:08,720 --> 02:04:10,080
Kind of just.
Interesting.

2224
02:04:11,920 --> 02:04:15,680
I guess like it.
I mean, DreamWorks was kind of

2225
02:04:15,680 --> 02:04:17,120
like a.
Failed project.

2226
02:04:18,280 --> 02:04:21,680
That, you know, people don't
really know that because you

2227
02:04:21,680 --> 02:04:24,480
still see DreamWorks and you
think like, oh, DreamWorks is

2228
02:04:24,480 --> 02:04:28,320
still successful, but really
like just the animation is and

2229
02:04:28,720 --> 02:04:31,840
everything else kind of
unfortunately.

2230
02:04:31,840 --> 02:04:32,400
Failed.
With.

2231
02:04:32,400 --> 02:04:35,680
It but yeah, yeah.
But this is.

2232
02:04:35,680 --> 02:04:37,000
Yeah, this is.
The last one.

2233
02:04:38,240 --> 02:04:42,040
Yeah, released October 2015,
almost three years to the day

2234
02:04:42,040 --> 02:04:51,080
after Lincoln pulled in a. 165.
Million dollar, I guess,

2235
02:04:51,080 --> 02:04:53,960
worldwide box office on a $40
million budget.

2236
02:04:54,680 --> 02:04:57,200
Not bad.
Hey, that'll do it.

2237
02:04:57,280 --> 02:05:02,440
It opens #3 at 50. 1,000,000
number one was of course,

2238
02:05:03,160 --> 02:05:06,480
goosebumps that weekend.
October release, right?

2239
02:05:06,840 --> 02:05:09,600
Yeah, Jack Black kind.
Of a halfway scary.

2240
02:05:09,600 --> 02:05:11,640
Movie and take your kids.
Too with Jack Black in it,

2241
02:05:11,760 --> 02:05:14,040
that's going to win.
Oh yeah, yeah, Jack Black.

2242
02:05:16,240 --> 02:05:18,640
Jack Black is man.
He's sticking around.

2243
02:05:19,480 --> 02:05:20,800
He is not.
Jack Black is the best.

2244
02:05:20,800 --> 02:05:22,400
He's not going away anytime
soon.

2245
02:05:22,400 --> 02:05:23,600
That's fine with me.
No way.

2246
02:05:24,280 --> 02:05:26,960
No Jack Black.
Is my dream casting for the

2247
02:05:26,960 --> 02:05:29,480
eventual Adam?
McKay movie about Donald Trump.

2248
02:05:29,760 --> 02:05:31,280
Oh, OK.
I want Jack Black to play Donald

2249
02:05:31,280 --> 02:05:31,920
Trump.
That'd be great.

2250
02:05:31,920 --> 02:05:34,360
That'd be fun.
Yeah, yeah.

2251
02:05:34,480 --> 02:05:36,760
All over that that.
Does feel like an inevitable

2252
02:05:36,760 --> 02:05:38,680
movie.
It does, yeah.

2253
02:05:40,480 --> 02:05:42,400
For better or worse.
Jack Black needs to EGOT.

2254
02:05:42,440 --> 02:05:43,680
That's the other.
Thing Jack Black.

2255
02:05:43,680 --> 02:05:44,960
Needs to egot.
He does.

2256
02:05:45,720 --> 02:05:46,880
He does.
So what does he?

2257
02:05:46,920 --> 02:05:51,960
He needs an Oscar.
He has a he has a Grammy for his

2258
02:05:51,960 --> 02:05:57,320
work.
Tenacious D, he has, I think he

2259
02:05:57,360 --> 02:05:58,880
has an Emmy.
He's a daytime.

2260
02:05:58,880 --> 02:06:02,480
Emmy that.
Makes sense for a voice work on

2261
02:06:02,480 --> 02:06:05,480
something you don't Tony yet
have.

2262
02:06:05,560 --> 02:06:08,080
I don't think he has a Tony or
an Oscar.

2263
02:06:08,080 --> 02:06:10,320
Yet but come.
On y'all, I mean, he should have

2264
02:06:10,320 --> 02:06:11,520
won.
He should have won an Oscar for

2265
02:06:11,520 --> 02:06:15,080
the for the Princess Pete song
in the Mario Brothers movie.

2266
02:06:15,080 --> 02:06:16,680
Yeah, he should.
Come on, He's right there.

2267
02:06:17,560 --> 02:06:19,320
Yeah, one day.
I agree with that.

2268
02:06:19,320 --> 02:06:20,880
That was the best part of the
whole movie.

2269
02:06:21,800 --> 02:06:29,640
By far, yeah, it it did.
It did well critically.

2270
02:06:29,640 --> 02:06:33,080
It did well commercially, yeah,
for just buys critic.

2271
02:06:33,440 --> 02:06:38,160
I guess critically is kind of
mixed at the time.

2272
02:06:38,880 --> 02:06:42,280
I think it's.
Become a little bit more like

2273
02:06:42,920 --> 02:06:46,520
people have come around on it a
little bit over time.

2274
02:06:46,600 --> 02:06:49,080
It's a it's a weird movie.
It's just it's 2 movies.

2275
02:06:49,080 --> 02:06:50,320
Nobody really talked about two
movies.

2276
02:06:50,320 --> 02:06:52,720
This cut right in half.
It is you know, it's it's a

2277
02:06:52,720 --> 02:06:57,000
strange movie.
It's it's 2 movies that that's

2278
02:06:57,000 --> 02:06:59,480
weird for anybody as you're
never going to have that get

2279
02:06:59,480 --> 02:07:02,360
like cheered the same way and
more conventional.

2280
02:07:02,360 --> 02:07:05,800
Yeah, film, yeah, for sure.
But.

2281
02:07:05,800 --> 02:07:09,000
Yeah, I just in my research, I'd
really just didn't see a whole

2282
02:07:09,000 --> 02:07:12,800
lot of like what people were
saying about it at the time.

2283
02:07:13,720 --> 02:07:17,080
It it seems like people were
like, yeah, it was pretty good

2284
02:07:17,080 --> 02:07:19,120
Spielberg movie.
Yeah.

2285
02:07:19,120 --> 02:07:21,240
And that was kind of that was
kind of it.

2286
02:07:23,560 --> 02:07:27,440
I mean, yeah, yeah, we.
Take him for granted.

2287
02:07:29,040 --> 02:07:33,520
Yeah, yeah, I really do.
It did get the Oscar

2288
02:07:33,520 --> 02:07:39,960
nominations.
It got Let's See 6 with sound

2289
02:07:39,960 --> 02:07:43,320
mixing, production design,
music, screenplay, and it got a

2290
02:07:43,320 --> 02:07:47,320
Best Picture nomination.
And that was the five

2291
02:07:47,320 --> 02:07:51,920
nominations it did win for Best
Supporting Actor for Mark

2292
02:07:51,920 --> 02:07:54,080
Rylance.
So well deserved.

2293
02:07:55,520 --> 02:07:56,440
I didn't.
Remember this?

2294
02:07:56,440 --> 02:08:03,080
But but it makes sense thinking
back, but apparently like for a

2295
02:08:03,080 --> 02:08:05,080
long time he was like the front
runner.

2296
02:08:05,400 --> 02:08:08,440
But then by the time the Oscars
rolled around, everyone was

2297
02:08:08,440 --> 02:08:14,200
like, oh, this is a shoe in for
Stallone and Creed and so this.

2298
02:08:14,360 --> 02:08:15,800
It was so when.
Rylance won.

2299
02:08:15,800 --> 02:08:20,280
It almost felt like an upset,
even though, like for forever he

2300
02:08:20,280 --> 02:08:22,680
was like, he's great.
Yeah.

2301
02:08:23,240 --> 02:08:25,080
So.
You know it.

2302
02:08:25,720 --> 02:08:30,600
I guess in true like it seemed I
guess Stallone kind of got.

2303
02:08:30,600 --> 02:08:32,400
Rockied.
In a way, yeah.

2304
02:08:32,400 --> 02:08:34,840
You know, good.
So.

2305
02:08:35,960 --> 02:08:36,720
I.
I love.

2306
02:08:36,720 --> 02:08:39,320
Rocky, I do too.
I think the worst part of Creed

2307
02:08:39,320 --> 02:08:43,640
is everything was Stallone, so
that's that's honestly fair.

2308
02:08:44,080 --> 02:08:45,240
The.
Best parts of Creed are.

2309
02:08:45,240 --> 02:08:48,920
Not still on the best parts of
Creed are the parts that you can

2310
02:08:48,920 --> 02:08:53,760
tell Coogler, like was really
loving, like infusing his

2311
02:08:53,760 --> 02:08:56,280
culture into the the rocky
universe.

2312
02:08:56,280 --> 02:08:57,560
Those are the best parts of
Creed.

2313
02:08:58,320 --> 02:09:00,160
Yeah, yeah.
Everything else is just like.

2314
02:09:01,280 --> 02:09:04,200
Rocky Balboa as like a heavy bag
on the back of another electric

2315
02:09:04,280 --> 02:09:08,240
baby.
Anyway, Gilmark Rylas, he.

2316
02:09:08,240 --> 02:09:09,400
Deserved it.
Yeah, he did.

2317
02:09:09,480 --> 02:09:10,160
He.
Really did.

2318
02:09:12,000 --> 02:09:14,240
Yeah, it's a quintessential.
Supporting Actor.

2319
02:09:14,640 --> 02:09:17,440
Like role as well.
It really is it's like exactly

2320
02:09:17,440 --> 02:09:20,400
what you want a supporting actor
nomination enrolled to be Yeah.

2321
02:09:21,360 --> 02:09:25,600
It to to like have a.
Lot of gravity to it to enhance

2322
02:09:25,600 --> 02:09:30,240
like the performance of the lead
actor and like I mean they

2323
02:09:30,240 --> 02:09:34,440
really are enhancing each other
with their their interactions.

2324
02:09:35,440 --> 02:09:42,480
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Hi, quick reminder that you,

2325
02:09:43,080 --> 02:09:46,560
yes.
You can be a huge help to the

2326
02:09:46,560 --> 02:09:49,040
production of the show.
If you visit

2327
02:09:49,040 --> 02:09:54,120
establishingshoppod.com/donate,
you'll find out how to join the

2328
02:09:54,120 --> 02:09:55,000
establishing.
Shot.

2329
02:09:55,000 --> 02:09:59,520
Family through some giving peers
starting as low as $5 a month.

2330
02:09:59,960 --> 02:10:02,280
You heard that right.
Only $5 a.

2331
02:10:02,280 --> 02:10:04,840
Month.
And not only will you be

2332
02:10:04,840 --> 02:10:05,680
helping.
Me keep.

2333
02:10:05,680 --> 02:10:09,160
The show going but you'll also
get some perks yourself like

2334
02:10:09,200 --> 02:10:13,200
early and AD free episodes,
bonus episodes, access to a.

2335
02:10:13,200 --> 02:10:15,240
Discord.
Server where we can chat it up

2336
02:10:15,240 --> 02:10:18,360
about the show and movies in
general and more.

2337
02:10:18,840 --> 02:10:20,480
Might even let you choose a
movie.

2338
02:10:20,800 --> 02:10:22,120
For me to.
Review for the show.

2339
02:10:22,960 --> 02:10:25,880
Check out that link in the show
notes to learn more.

2340
02:10:26,520 --> 02:10:30,720
Back to the show all.
Right I.

2341
02:10:30,720 --> 02:10:33,760
Think this is the time.
Where you tell me your theory

2342
02:10:34,080 --> 02:10:38,600
let's your theory of.
Why Spielberg made this movie?

2343
02:10:39,280 --> 02:10:40,400
Why?
Why this film?

2344
02:10:40,760 --> 02:10:44,000
OK.
So here's here's here's the

2345
02:10:44,000 --> 02:10:45,560
here's.
The wonderful thing we are, we

2346
02:10:45,560 --> 02:10:47,720
are.
Living in a We are.

2347
02:10:50,520 --> 02:10:53,000
We are living in an AF.
World is what we're living in.

2348
02:10:53,440 --> 02:10:55,720
OK, yeah, it's an after fable
man's world.

2349
02:10:56,040 --> 02:10:57,680
It's the world we live in.
That's true, right?

2350
02:10:58,400 --> 02:11:00,520
Yeah, and it is it.
Is wonderful to live in an

2351
02:11:00,520 --> 02:11:02,440
after.
Fable man's Spielberg world.

2352
02:11:02,720 --> 02:11:06,640
I think as a as a film, it's a
live, It's a great, it's a great

2353
02:11:06,640 --> 02:11:10,600
time, it's a great time.
And I'm so glad that movie is as

2354
02:11:10,600 --> 02:11:12,400
good as it is.
And it's all the things that it

2355
02:11:12,400 --> 02:11:15,920
is, because otherwise it would
be a sad, a sad world to be in a

2356
02:11:16,200 --> 02:11:18,320
after fable man's world.
But it's a good world.

2357
02:11:19,600 --> 02:11:23,600
And I mean, I do you have.
This like I cannot watch this

2358
02:11:23,600 --> 02:11:24,920
blobring.
Movie now without thinking about

2359
02:11:24,920 --> 02:11:28,440
that movie and like how it
connects to some aspect of

2360
02:11:28,440 --> 02:11:30,400
whatever I'm watching.
You can't and you can't.

2361
02:11:30,400 --> 02:11:35,040
Not now.
And my favorite part?

2362
02:11:35,040 --> 02:11:38,440
Of that of the Fableman's.
Probably is the film he makes

2363
02:11:38,440 --> 02:11:41,560
for his senior senior ditch day
at the beach.

2364
02:11:42,600 --> 02:11:49,080
And what the effect that that
film has on his on the bully and

2365
02:11:49,520 --> 02:11:53,400
the way he shows him as like a
golden child and how he how it

2366
02:11:53,840 --> 02:11:56,160
like a Golden Boy or something
like that.

2367
02:11:56,160 --> 02:12:00,960
He says and how it makes him
angry and it makes him feel sad

2368
02:12:00,960 --> 02:12:02,920
and it makes him it like
convicts him.

2369
02:12:02,920 --> 02:12:05,240
Basically, he's convicted that
he is not that thing.

2370
02:12:06,240 --> 02:12:12,000
And by by Spielberg showing him,
showing that boy what he should

2371
02:12:12,000 --> 02:12:16,840
be, what he what he has the
ability to be if he would only

2372
02:12:16,840 --> 02:12:20,440
live up to it, it like convicts
him that he's not that thing.

2373
02:12:20,840 --> 02:12:24,600
And for me that that is like,
oh, that is exactly what

2374
02:12:24,600 --> 02:12:29,360
Spielberg does in his these
conscience movies, these these

2375
02:12:29,360 --> 02:12:32,480
civics movies, conscious movies.
He he wants to show.

2376
02:12:32,640 --> 02:12:38,120
Because I think Spielberg being
a Jewish American, like he feels

2377
02:12:38,120 --> 02:12:44,240
like an outsider looking at this
country of Wasps, you know, who

2378
02:12:44,240 --> 02:12:46,840
are in charge of everything,
these golden boys like that

2379
02:12:46,880 --> 02:12:50,120
bully or whatever, or like, or
like Donovan, you know, like

2380
02:12:50,120 --> 02:12:53,160
this is a WASP family at the
middle of this thing.

2381
02:12:54,320 --> 02:13:00,240
And he's he's holding, he's
holding him up and saying this

2382
02:13:00,240 --> 02:13:03,720
is who you should be.
You know, this to make this

2383
02:13:03,720 --> 02:13:04,680
movie.
This isn't my theory.

2384
02:13:04,880 --> 02:13:06,840
Making this movie is an
opportunity to do that.

2385
02:13:07,000 --> 02:13:12,240
It's to make his senior ditch
day movie all over again and to

2386
02:13:12,280 --> 02:13:16,440
show someone but who, who
actually was a kind of a paragon

2387
02:13:16,480 --> 02:13:19,920
of, of civic duty and
responsibility, the kind of

2388
02:13:19,920 --> 02:13:22,080
people we actually should aspire
to be.

2389
02:13:23,360 --> 02:13:25,520
I think that's what this is.
I think that's what for the most

2390
02:13:25,520 --> 02:13:29,600
part, all his conscious movies
are, are just making that senior

2391
02:13:29,600 --> 02:13:31,200
dish state movie all over again.
Yeah.

2392
02:13:32,480 --> 02:13:39,200
And it I love that.
I mean, I, I, I, I, I don't like

2393
02:13:39,200 --> 02:13:43,760
preaching movies.
And it it's part of growing up

2394
02:13:43,760 --> 02:13:46,360
in Christian subculture and
being exposed to too many

2395
02:13:46,360 --> 02:13:51,440
preachy things and being old
enough and wise enough and

2396
02:13:51,440 --> 02:13:53,000
mature enough.
And learning enough now.

2397
02:13:53,000 --> 02:13:55,960
To know that that is not
effective, that all you're all

2398
02:13:55,960 --> 02:13:58,320
you're really doing is preaching
to the choir and they aren't

2399
02:13:58,320 --> 02:14:01,160
even really listening.
It isn't doing any good.

2400
02:14:01,440 --> 02:14:05,680
And so I, I, I tend to be very
allergic to preaching movies,

2401
02:14:05,680 --> 02:14:08,320
but I like Spielberg preaching
movies for the most part.

2402
02:14:08,720 --> 02:14:12,760
And I like, for a long time,
like couldn't figure out why

2403
02:14:12,760 --> 02:14:14,680
that was.
You know, I would like, I can

2404
02:14:14,680 --> 02:14:17,440
watch a movie like this and see
very clear that it is preaching

2405
02:14:17,440 --> 02:14:20,400
to me and trying to get me to be
a certain way.

2406
02:14:21,560 --> 02:14:25,800
And, but what I, what I figured
out thanks to the fable that's,

2407
02:14:26,720 --> 02:14:29,600
and, you know, re watching
Lincoln a ton of times.

2408
02:14:29,600 --> 02:14:33,280
I love Lincoln and watching this
movie a lot of times too is

2409
02:14:33,280 --> 02:14:37,120
like, oh, that's why this works.
This works because it works when

2410
02:14:37,120 --> 02:14:39,120
Spielberg does it one, because
he's Spielberg and he can.

2411
02:14:39,600 --> 02:14:43,600
He could tell me a story about a
gum wrapper blowing down the

2412
02:14:43,600 --> 02:14:45,440
street and it'd probably be
great.

2413
02:14:45,440 --> 02:14:49,120
But it works because.
He's.

2414
02:14:50,720 --> 02:14:58,160
There is a, there is an aspect
to it where it's not simply

2415
02:14:58,160 --> 02:15:01,240
like, it's not saying this is
who you are.

2416
02:15:03,880 --> 02:15:07,200
Yeah, you, yeah, it's saying.
This is who you.

2417
02:15:07,200 --> 02:15:09,840
Should be.
There's like an inherent

2418
02:15:09,840 --> 02:15:13,280
criticism kind of built in that
says you're not this.

2419
02:15:13,360 --> 02:15:16,080
Yeah.
And I think like the fact that

2420
02:15:16,080 --> 02:15:19,360
he made this movie and Lincoln
in the post during the era of

2421
02:15:19,360 --> 02:15:23,880
American like politics and said
that those years in there where

2422
02:15:24,240 --> 02:15:27,280
the the things that like
separate us and divide us and

2423
02:15:27,280 --> 02:15:30,200
the the rancor, political rancor
and all that kind of stuff is

2424
02:15:30,200 --> 02:15:34,680
like so high pitched.
You know, it's like, this is

2425
02:15:34,680 --> 02:15:37,080
Spielberg's way.
Spielberg who loves Norman

2426
02:15:37,080 --> 02:15:40,560
Rockwell, Spielberg who like to
drench everything in light.

2427
02:15:40,760 --> 02:15:44,440
Spielberg who has been accused
of being overly sentimental.

2428
02:15:44,480 --> 02:15:46,600
Like all this.
This is his way of criticizing

2429
02:15:46,600 --> 02:15:51,000
American Society, criticizing
his audience and saying like, be

2430
02:15:51,000 --> 02:15:55,680
better than you are, you know.
And and like, you know, when the

2431
02:15:55,680 --> 02:16:00,040
story is told in a way that like
you, he challenges you to like

2432
02:16:00,280 --> 02:16:04,080
throughout to like, will you
judge this man or not?

2433
02:16:04,080 --> 02:16:05,720
How will you do that?
How will you?

2434
02:16:06,000 --> 02:16:09,680
Can you be like Donovan and
continue to?

2435
02:16:10,760 --> 02:16:12,120
I wouldn't go as far to say
love.

2436
02:16:12,120 --> 02:16:15,960
Him but to.
Like, respect him.

2437
02:16:15,960 --> 02:16:19,880
Enough to give him the.
Fullness of the law and the way

2438
02:16:19,880 --> 02:16:21,560
that it should be practiced on
his side.

2439
02:16:21,760 --> 02:16:24,120
You know, do you love your
country enough?

2440
02:16:24,240 --> 02:16:27,240
Do you love America enough to
like make America be the thing

2441
02:16:27,240 --> 02:16:31,040
it says it wants to be?
You know, it's like that, that

2442
02:16:31,040 --> 02:16:34,680
James Baldwin quote about like
James Baldwin says something

2443
02:16:34,680 --> 02:16:36,600
like, I'm still waiting for
America to be the thing that

2444
02:16:36,600 --> 02:16:39,320
says this.
And I believe it can be that,

2445
02:16:39,559 --> 02:16:44,639
you know, and I think Spielberg
believes it can be that and says

2446
02:16:44,639 --> 02:16:48,520
like, okay, now be this, do
this, stop being the thing you

2447
02:16:48,520 --> 02:16:52,280
are, be this thing.
And so that's my theory.

2448
02:16:52,400 --> 02:16:54,600
That's why I think Spielberg
reads this script.

2449
02:16:54,799 --> 02:16:56,760
And it's like, hey, I could do
the YouTube thing.

2450
02:16:56,760 --> 02:16:59,360
That's fun.
I remember that from my

2451
02:16:59,360 --> 02:17:00,799
childhood.
I can recreate this part of my

2452
02:17:00,799 --> 02:17:04,959
life.
And also, and, you know, he was

2453
02:17:04,959 --> 02:17:07,600
born in New Jersey, by the way.
So he's like, from New York as a

2454
02:17:07,600 --> 02:17:11,879
kid, basically nobody in Jersey
was either from New York and

2455
02:17:11,879 --> 02:17:14,840
vice versa.
But still, for people who aren't

2456
02:17:14,840 --> 02:17:17,760
from there is all the same.
And so he gets to recreate his

2457
02:17:17,760 --> 02:17:20,520
childhood.
But it comes right down to it.

2458
02:17:20,520 --> 02:17:24,879
It's also a way to like, do
senior ditch day all over again.

2459
02:17:25,240 --> 02:17:26,719
Yeah, that's my thing.
I love that.

2460
02:17:27,760 --> 02:17:30,240
And the Fableman.
'S has kind of become my like

2461
02:17:30,440 --> 02:17:35,799
lens through which to watch all
Spielberg movies and like

2462
02:17:36,280 --> 02:17:37,959
answers a lot of.
Questions.

2463
02:17:38,400 --> 02:17:42,600
That you might have about why he
made certain movies the way he

2464
02:17:42,600 --> 02:17:46,120
did for sure.
Yeah.

2465
02:17:46,320 --> 02:17:53,360
I mean, it's it's all there in
the fable men's, but yeah, I I

2466
02:17:53,360 --> 02:17:54,400
think it's a.
Great theory.

2467
02:17:55,520 --> 02:18:00,040
I think 1.
Of the things that I.

2468
02:18:00,040 --> 02:18:06,559
Think this movie.
Certain parts.

2469
02:18:06,559 --> 02:18:13,080
Of War Horse for sure and then
like again like I will be

2470
02:18:13,440 --> 02:18:17,639
revisiting Lincoln soon and I'm
sure it's there in Lincoln it

2471
02:18:17,639 --> 02:18:22,160
was definitely there in Munich
for me Munich was like a

2472
02:18:22,160 --> 02:18:27,959
surprising like absolutely went
for it totally it's amazing

2473
02:18:28,360 --> 02:18:29,559
movie for.
Me.

2474
02:18:30,240 --> 02:18:32,840
Yeah.
It it might be like my.

2475
02:18:32,840 --> 02:18:36,920
Favorite surprise?
Of the the series so far because

2476
02:18:36,920 --> 02:18:41,799
it was a blind spot and one of
the things that I've that I've

2477
02:18:41,799 --> 02:18:46,320
found is all those movies war
horses a little bit more like

2478
02:18:46,320 --> 02:18:49,480
hit and miss, but it has some
moments like better.

2479
02:18:50,200 --> 02:18:54,799
It's like Spielberg finds this
like line to ride where

2480
02:18:54,799 --> 02:18:59,400
something where he makes these
either entire films or at.

2481
02:18:59,400 --> 02:19:01,680
Least moments in films.
That are genuinely

2482
02:19:01,680 --> 02:19:09,320
inspirational.
They don't feel forced somehow,

2483
02:19:09,639 --> 02:19:13,520
even though like this definitely
there in the writing and the

2484
02:19:13,520 --> 02:19:17,480
acting and the camera work.
And like, I mean, it is forced,

2485
02:19:17,680 --> 02:19:19,760
but it doesn't feel forced
somehow.

2486
02:19:19,760 --> 02:19:24,120
It's like this magic, like
genuine inspiration.

2487
02:19:25,240 --> 02:19:28,719
And I think it just comes from
like there's a sense in which

2488
02:19:28,719 --> 02:19:38,680
like the mature Spielberg isn't
isn't like fully devoid of like

2489
02:19:38,799 --> 02:19:43,200
his child likeness.
And there's a.

2490
02:19:43,440 --> 02:19:47,639
You know.
We both have young children and

2491
02:19:47,639 --> 02:19:51,520
there's a sense in which
sometimes like the simpleness of

2492
02:19:51,520 --> 02:19:59,960
the way like a child can see,
things can like that simplicity.

2493
02:19:59,960 --> 02:20:02,280
Is maybe?
Sometimes even more like

2494
02:20:02,360 --> 02:20:09,200
inspiring or convicting than
like deeply feel something

2495
02:20:09,200 --> 02:20:14,600
deeply philosophical or like,
you know, pre like.

2496
02:20:14,600 --> 02:20:17,360
Overly preachy or?
Theological or whatever you want

2497
02:20:17,360 --> 02:20:20,880
to say.
And I think that's there in

2498
02:20:20,880 --> 02:20:25,400
Spielberg still.
And maybe that's how he pulls

2499
02:20:25,400 --> 02:20:29,040
this off is like, yes, he's the
mature Spielberg and he can

2500
02:20:29,040 --> 02:20:33,600
examine like the problems with
the world and explore those

2501
02:20:33,600 --> 02:20:36,320
themes.
But there's like this, there's

2502
02:20:36,320 --> 02:20:40,880
this still this like childlike
simplicity in the way he sees

2503
02:20:40,880 --> 02:20:43,840
it.
Like this man just wants to do

2504
02:20:43,840 --> 02:20:48,760
his job well and like.
Follow the rules.

2505
02:20:49,880 --> 02:20:54,640
And like try to like respect
people in in a civilized way.

2506
02:20:54,720 --> 02:20:59,400
And it's like it's very simple.
But like when you I mean, yes,

2507
02:20:59,400 --> 02:21:03,040
you're adding like Tom Hanks
into the mix, which helps a lot.

2508
02:21:04,640 --> 02:21:09,400
But it's it's so simple.
It should, it should be like

2509
02:21:09,640 --> 02:21:13,840
maybe in a lot of other
directors hands like cheesy or

2510
02:21:13,840 --> 02:21:17,120
like you said, way too preachy.
But I think it's that like

2511
02:21:18,160 --> 02:21:21,960
maturity mixed with the
childlike perspective that I

2512
02:21:21,960 --> 02:21:29,560
think make it just work.
Yeah, Yeah, there is that.

2513
02:21:30,120 --> 02:21:31,920
He's having fun making a spy
movie.

2514
02:21:31,920 --> 02:21:33,880
Yeah, right.
Yeah, it's there.

2515
02:21:33,880 --> 02:21:35,400
That's.
Definitely.

2516
02:21:35,400 --> 02:21:37,840
Part of it, he's just having fun
making a spy movie, too.

2517
02:21:38,240 --> 02:21:41,840
This happens to be a spy movie.
Has to be this spy movie.

2518
02:21:41,840 --> 02:21:44,920
But he's making a spy movie.
Yeah, pretty a real spy movie,

2519
02:21:45,120 --> 02:21:49,360
like a spy movie, like a John
Lecar kind of spy story, You

2520
02:21:49,640 --> 02:21:52,160
know, it's just.
It's.

2521
02:21:52,320 --> 02:21:53,680
It's fun.
It's just fun.

2522
02:21:54,200 --> 02:21:55,440
Yeah.
Yeah.

2523
02:21:55,440 --> 02:21:57,080
I mean, yeah.
And I mean.

2524
02:21:57,080 --> 02:22:01,960
Too, Like you also have, I think
the other like Fableman's lens,

2525
02:22:01,960 --> 02:22:06,760
you can look at this through is
like the fatherhood and family

2526
02:22:06,760 --> 02:22:09,800
and manhood lens.
Oh, sure, yeah.

2527
02:22:10,440 --> 02:22:12,920
This it's.
Almost like this movie is like

2528
02:22:13,240 --> 02:22:16,240
making up for all the other
Spielberg dads that have

2529
02:22:16,240 --> 02:22:18,720
abandoned their family because
this is the one.

2530
02:22:18,720 --> 02:22:21,440
Yeah, It's the one Spielberg dad
that, like, really just wants to

2531
02:22:21,440 --> 02:22:23,800
get back home to his family in
his bed.

2532
02:22:24,040 --> 02:22:25,560
That's right.
Yeah.

2533
02:22:25,800 --> 02:22:29,520
I mean it's.
Notable that it's made after

2534
02:22:29,640 --> 02:22:31,960
whatever this point is in
Spielberg's life, when he

2535
02:22:31,960 --> 02:22:33,960
finally understood what really
happened when he was a kid.

2536
02:22:33,960 --> 02:22:36,680
Yeah, because for years and
years he blamed his dad, right,

2537
02:22:37,720 --> 02:22:40,520
for the for the divorce, which
is what they took, which is what

2538
02:22:40,520 --> 02:22:41,920
they said told the kids at the
time.

2539
02:22:42,440 --> 02:22:45,480
And then later on he learned the
truth, Yeah, about what really

2540
02:22:45,480 --> 02:22:47,040
happened.
And you can kind of see a change

2541
02:22:47,040 --> 02:22:50,720
in his filmography, right, where
dads certainly start being.

2542
02:22:50,920 --> 02:22:52,800
It's sad often that dads are
gone.

2543
02:22:53,080 --> 02:22:55,240
Like I, I love Kingdom of the
Crystal Skull.

2544
02:22:56,280 --> 02:22:59,040
I really love that movie.
And I really love it because

2545
02:22:59,040 --> 02:23:01,560
it's a very sad movie.
It's a very sad movie that all

2546
02:23:01,560 --> 02:23:04,360
this time that's that they've
wasted when they when he could

2547
02:23:04,360 --> 02:23:06,840
have had a we could have been a
father and he could have been

2548
02:23:06,880 --> 02:23:09,600
living, having a living
relationship with Marian and he

2549
02:23:09,600 --> 02:23:12,520
wasted all this time because of
other stuff.

2550
02:23:12,520 --> 02:23:15,720
So it's a very it's a movie that
likes like Spielberg becomes

2551
02:23:15,720 --> 02:23:20,280
kind of forgiving and graceful
towards fathers in the latter

2552
02:23:20,280 --> 02:23:23,600
part of his career, which is
really, really, it's really

2553
02:23:23,600 --> 02:23:24,520
cool.
It's amazing.

2554
02:23:25,520 --> 02:23:28,040
Yeah, I.
Along those lines.

2555
02:23:28,040 --> 02:23:32,080
I, I had to write down this,
another quote from Molly Haskell

2556
02:23:32,080 --> 02:23:33,720
because I thought this was
really good.

2557
02:23:34,440 --> 02:23:39,600
Just talking about like the
ending and how some, you know,

2558
02:23:40,160 --> 02:23:42,520
he makes it home.
But sometimes, like family

2559
02:23:42,520 --> 02:23:45,080
reunions, like aren't quite
living.

2560
02:23:45,120 --> 02:23:47,320
They don't quite live up to your
expectations.

2561
02:23:47,720 --> 02:23:49,720
I mean, we get a little bit of
that in this film.

2562
02:23:49,720 --> 02:23:54,560
Like, you know, another
filmmaker would have ended with

2563
02:23:54,560 --> 02:23:57,560
him, like, standing there, you
know, and the kids looking back

2564
02:23:57,560 --> 02:24:00,880
and he's there and he like, you
know, gives a little knowing nod

2565
02:24:00,880 --> 02:24:03,880
and then goes up the stairs.
This ends with him just like,

2566
02:24:04,120 --> 02:24:06,760
passed out on the bed.
Like they look back and he's not

2567
02:24:06,800 --> 02:24:08,080
there.
He's like passed out.

2568
02:24:08,080 --> 02:24:11,400
He's tired, tired but also like
his job, right?

2569
02:24:11,400 --> 02:24:13,440
Yeah.
But also like you, you get a

2570
02:24:13,440 --> 02:24:17,720
foreshadow of this idea with,
like, the phone call that he

2571
02:24:17,720 --> 02:24:19,560
makes in the phone booth in
Berlin.

2572
02:24:19,560 --> 02:24:22,880
And he's like asking for the
kids and they're, you know, none

2573
02:24:22,880 --> 02:24:25,240
of them are.
They all are doing other stuff.

2574
02:24:25,240 --> 02:24:29,080
They have their own
preoccupations and.

2575
02:24:30,360 --> 02:24:31,840
You know.
There's a sense in which they

2576
02:24:31,840 --> 02:24:34,160
can never understand what he
did.

2577
02:24:35,040 --> 02:24:37,960
And so.
So along those lines, this

2578
02:24:37,960 --> 02:24:42,520
Haskell quote, she says quote, a
weary Donovan ascends the steps

2579
02:24:42,800 --> 02:24:45,880
like Jamie and Empire of the Sun
or Elliot and ET.

2580
02:24:45,880 --> 02:24:48,960
He is alone with a lingering
sense of loss.

2581
02:24:49,120 --> 02:24:52,840
The deeper bond lies elsewhere,
with an alien and soulmate who

2582
02:24:52,840 --> 02:24:55,200
has returned to the mothership.
End Quote.

2583
02:24:56,040 --> 02:24:58,000
I was like so.
I.

2584
02:24:58,000 --> 02:24:59,560
Was like man.
This is.

2585
02:24:59,800 --> 02:25:01,600
It's good.
These those are like the the

2586
02:25:01,600 --> 02:25:05,400
things you like read that are
like, this is what film

2587
02:25:05,400 --> 02:25:08,640
criticism is all about, like
finding those connections.

2588
02:25:08,640 --> 02:25:12,120
And yeah, yeah, I loved that.
It's funny.

2589
02:25:12,680 --> 02:25:14,200
It's funny to think about the
shift.

2590
02:25:14,200 --> 02:25:18,000
In perspective here, like you'd
go back to something another

2591
02:25:18,000 --> 02:25:20,920
like one of I mean, maybe
Spielberg's most personal film,

2592
02:25:20,920 --> 02:25:24,800
but like close Encounters and
the third kind and how that

2593
02:25:24,800 --> 02:25:28,400
movie, you know you, I watch
that now and you know, Spielberg

2594
02:25:28,400 --> 02:25:30,520
has said he would he would make
it differently if he made it

2595
02:25:31,440 --> 02:25:33,520
later in his life then but.
But.

2596
02:25:34,600 --> 02:25:36,840
What's so great about that is
it's it's a movie that like

2597
02:25:39,160 --> 02:25:41,360
it's.
Almost like the best possible.

2598
02:25:41,480 --> 02:25:47,720
Scenario for why your dad left
you know, and there's like a a

2599
02:25:47,720 --> 02:25:49,880
mystery and mystery in that
movie.

2600
02:25:49,880 --> 02:25:52,640
I keep making the kids
perspective like later, you're

2601
02:25:52,640 --> 02:25:55,040
like, where did that go?
Why did that go?

2602
02:25:55,040 --> 02:25:56,720
I don't understand any of this.
I don't understand.

2603
02:25:56,720 --> 02:25:58,480
I don't know my dad.
I don't understand my dad.

2604
02:25:59,000 --> 02:26:01,720
I never did, you know.
And so like, here's this wish

2605
02:26:01,720 --> 02:26:04,880
fulfillment movie about well, it
was aliens, of course, you know,

2606
02:26:05,800 --> 02:26:08,200
and now you switch here to the
end toward the not the end of

2607
02:26:08,200 --> 02:26:11,240
his career, hopefully, but much
later in his career, much later

2608
02:26:11,240 --> 02:26:14,200
in his life.
And you have like the movie

2609
02:26:14,200 --> 02:26:16,600
about the death and how the
kids, they don't understand the

2610
02:26:16,600 --> 02:26:19,080
death, but it's like from the
dad's perspective, right?

2611
02:26:20,160 --> 02:26:23,280
That like it's not that they'll
understand they're.

2612
02:26:23,280 --> 02:26:24,480
Dad, they're just not aware.
Yeah.

2613
02:26:24,480 --> 02:26:25,640
What's going on?
They're not aware.

2614
02:26:25,640 --> 02:26:27,320
Kids live with their they're not
aware.

2615
02:26:27,320 --> 02:26:29,840
And then, yeah.
And then like and isn't that

2616
02:26:29,840 --> 02:26:31,560
great actually that they don't
have to be?

2617
02:26:31,560 --> 02:26:35,360
Worried about what's going on
and and like and you.

2618
02:26:35,680 --> 02:26:39,080
You know, there's a sense in
which like, yes, like I love the

2619
02:26:39,240 --> 02:26:42,040
the Haskell quote, like there's
this lingering sense of loss he

2620
02:26:42,040 --> 02:26:47,120
has, but also like he's there.
Like at the end, he's there.

2621
02:26:47,120 --> 02:26:49,960
Like he's passed out on the bed.
He's you.

2622
02:26:49,960 --> 02:26:51,800
Know he's going to take some
Nyquil.

2623
02:26:52,960 --> 02:26:59,200
And get over his sniffles.
But he's he's there at home, and

2624
02:26:59,200 --> 02:27:02,920
the kids are ensconced in a.
Freedom and a security that they

2625
02:27:02,920 --> 02:27:04,800
don't they don't even see or
understand.

2626
02:27:05,280 --> 02:27:08,040
And it's all because of work
that people like him and I get

2627
02:27:08,040 --> 02:27:09,800
they do.
I guess the parallel is.

2628
02:27:10,200 --> 02:27:14,920
It's the same thing for for the
country and yeah, exactly it's

2629
02:27:14,920 --> 02:27:16,120
that.
It's that, it's that shot on

2630
02:27:16,120 --> 02:27:17,320
the.
Train of the kids climbing the

2631
02:27:17,320 --> 02:27:20,640
fence, which is a call back to
the people getting shot, right?

2632
02:27:20,680 --> 02:27:24,040
You know, they don't even know,
you know, Yeah.

2633
02:27:24,120 --> 02:27:25,840
They don't even know and like
the.

2634
02:27:25,840 --> 02:27:27,920
Work that he did made it
possible for those kids to be

2635
02:27:27,920 --> 02:27:31,600
climbing a fence yeah and having
fun and playing instead of

2636
02:27:31,600 --> 02:27:34,680
climbing a fence getting shot
you know like yeah it's it's

2637
02:27:34,680 --> 02:27:38,920
that's what it's for yeah it's
so that they can be unaware of

2638
02:27:38,920 --> 02:27:41,880
the piece in which they live
yeah yeah yeah for sure and the.

2639
02:27:43,040 --> 02:27:46,720
Fun fact about that, that was
actually Hank's idea to have

2640
02:27:46,720 --> 02:27:49,800
that shot.
Oh cool, because he was he.

2641
02:27:49,800 --> 02:27:51,880
Was asking this.
Is like one of the last things

2642
02:27:51,880 --> 02:27:57,160
they shot back in New York.
And he was asking Spielberg,

2643
02:27:57,160 --> 02:27:59,920
like, what am I looking at out
the window, I guess trying to

2644
02:27:59,920 --> 02:28:02,200
get some direction.
And Spielberg's like, it's, it's

2645
02:28:02,200 --> 02:28:04,040
freedom.
Like you're back home, you know,

2646
02:28:05,600 --> 02:28:09,240
And Hanks just had this idea
there's as they were going, I

2647
02:28:09,240 --> 02:28:12,760
guess of like, what if we have
like some kids climbing over a

2648
02:28:12,760 --> 02:28:16,560
fence to kind of like call back
to that shot of the scene?

2649
02:28:16,640 --> 02:28:18,680
Cuz I'm looking I guess he was.
Thinking like.

2650
02:28:18,880 --> 02:28:21,720
I was looking out of a train
window, then motion, Yeah.

2651
02:28:22,800 --> 02:28:23,520
And.
So spill.

2652
02:28:23,880 --> 02:28:25,320
And Spillbrook was like, yeah,
perfect.

2653
02:28:25,480 --> 02:28:26,280
We're we'll.
Do it.

2654
02:28:27,720 --> 02:28:28,280
That's cool.
Yeah.

2655
02:28:28,880 --> 02:28:29,640
Yeah.
So.

2656
02:28:29,640 --> 02:28:32,640
Really cool.
That's a good collaboration.

2657
02:28:32,640 --> 02:28:33,360
Yeah.
Yeah.

2658
02:28:35,840 --> 02:28:36,640
Cool.
Yeah, I.

2659
02:28:36,640 --> 02:28:39,040
Mean this.
Movie I think.

2660
02:28:40,520 --> 02:28:45,360
I mean it it definitely like
reverberates with with like.

2661
02:28:46,200 --> 02:28:47,920
Contemporary.
Anxieties too.

2662
02:28:47,920 --> 02:28:51,240
Because I mean.
At the time there was a lot of

2663
02:28:51,440 --> 02:28:57,400
Guantanamo Bay questions and,
you know, I mean.

2664
02:28:57,400 --> 02:29:02,760
Now.
We're dealing with we have ICE

2665
02:29:02,760 --> 02:29:04,400
raids.
Going on.

2666
02:29:05,760 --> 02:29:09,120
You know, it's no due process,
all that stuff.

2667
02:29:09,400 --> 02:29:12,280
Yeah, yeah.
This move that due process.

2668
02:29:12,280 --> 02:29:14,240
It is you.
Know anything else move back to

2669
02:29:14,280 --> 02:29:16,560
it's about and how important
that it's about if you believe

2670
02:29:16,560 --> 02:29:20,880
it, it's a it's a right that
should be afforded to every man

2671
02:29:20,880 --> 02:29:24,400
woman and child in the world,
not only the ones that were born

2672
02:29:24,400 --> 02:29:26,680
in this country.
That's that's what we used to

2673
02:29:26,960 --> 02:29:28,960
say, that we believe that we
still, some people still say

2674
02:29:28,960 --> 02:29:30,720
that we believe.
And there's a whole bunch of

2675
02:29:30,720 --> 02:29:36,240
people who don't believe that,
who think that the the rights

2676
02:29:36,240 --> 02:29:41,560
that we say are inalienable,
inalienable, are inalienable for

2677
02:29:41,560 --> 02:29:43,840
all people.
Yeah, yeah.

2678
02:29:43,840 --> 02:29:44,840
Not just the ones that yeah.
And.

2679
02:29:44,840 --> 02:29:47,040
It's it's.
I think in that way.

2680
02:29:47,040 --> 02:29:48,560
It's 1 of Spielberg's.
Most.

2681
02:29:48,560 --> 02:29:53,600
Like humanist movies, just like
humans deserve to be treated

2682
02:29:53,600 --> 02:29:58,080
like humans and where you're.
Born is.

2683
02:29:59,080 --> 02:30:00,880
Where you're born or where
you're from should be

2684
02:30:00,880 --> 02:30:05,560
inconsequential to that, that
that ethical foundation.

2685
02:30:07,560 --> 02:30:09,280
And yeah.
You know.

2686
02:30:09,920 --> 02:30:11,960
I I personally want to ask
people.

2687
02:30:11,960 --> 02:30:13,040
Like what?
Like.

2688
02:30:13,880 --> 02:30:17,840
You you get more human rights
because you were born in a

2689
02:30:17,840 --> 02:30:20,800
particular place other than over
someone.

2690
02:30:20,880 --> 02:30:23,080
I don't know.
That's that's a whole another

2691
02:30:23,080 --> 02:30:25,160
Bunny trail.
We could we could go down.

2692
02:30:25,160 --> 02:30:27,200
Well, I mean it.
It's what this movie is about.

2693
02:30:27,200 --> 02:30:29,480
It is.
Like what this movie is about is

2694
02:30:29,480 --> 02:30:33,160
like, it's the, it's the,
there's a, there's a lot,

2695
02:30:33,320 --> 02:30:39,400
there's a lot of bad things
about the kind of triumphant

2696
02:30:39,440 --> 02:30:45,280
American colonialist.
Thing of the 19. 50s and 60s,

2697
02:30:45,480 --> 02:30:47,240
seventies, there's a lot of bad.
There's a lot of bad.

2698
02:30:47,800 --> 02:30:50,920
But one of the good parts of it,
and so I think is what Spielberg

2699
02:30:50,920 --> 02:30:55,720
is getting at here, is that
these American values are things

2700
02:30:55,720 --> 02:30:58,680
that should be shared.
The good, the good of them are

2701
02:30:58,680 --> 02:31:00,320
things that should be shared and
should be spread.

2702
02:31:00,640 --> 02:31:03,000
Like we should believe that the
whole world should be this way,

2703
02:31:04,040 --> 02:31:08,880
these good things.
And when we say, when we like

2704
02:31:09,240 --> 02:31:13,840
build walls, you know, Berlin
walls in this case, when we

2705
02:31:13,840 --> 02:31:17,280
build walls and say, no, these,
these, these rights are only

2706
02:31:17,280 --> 02:31:19,680
people on the inside, not people
on the outside.

2707
02:31:19,840 --> 02:31:22,240
What you've done is you've made,
you've made America smaller.

2708
02:31:22,960 --> 02:31:25,040
You've made the values not more
precious.

2709
02:31:25,280 --> 02:31:29,440
You've made them less precious.
You've, you've, you've, you've

2710
02:31:29,440 --> 02:31:33,400
shrunk us is what you've done.
And what Spielberg is saying

2711
02:31:33,400 --> 02:31:38,280
here that no, anywhere a man
like Donovan or a woman like

2712
02:31:38,280 --> 02:31:40,000
Donovan, it couldn't if it was a
woman.

2713
02:31:40,280 --> 02:31:44,320
Anywhere someone goes who
believes in these, in these

2714
02:31:44,560 --> 02:31:47,360
inalienable rights, anywhere
they go, they are America.

2715
02:31:48,640 --> 02:31:52,280
And so when he goes into East
Germany, America is there

2716
02:31:52,280 --> 02:31:54,400
because he is there.
And the values and the rights

2717
02:31:54,400 --> 02:31:57,280
and the things that he believes
are important are there then and

2718
02:31:57,280 --> 02:32:02,440
established there.
I mean, it's, it's, it's the

2719
02:32:02,440 --> 02:32:03,920
Christian thing.
I mean, if you want to, you can,

2720
02:32:03,920 --> 02:32:07,440
we can make that leap, you know,
and say that like, you know,

2721
02:32:07,640 --> 02:32:09,960
Jesus said we're two and we're
together in my name.

2722
02:32:09,960 --> 02:32:13,680
There I am too, you know,
because we take this thing that

2723
02:32:13,680 --> 02:32:16,160
we believe wherever we go, there
is no border.

2724
02:32:16,560 --> 02:32:18,360
There is no border.
There's nowhere to put a wall

2725
02:32:18,360 --> 02:32:19,520
out.
There is no border to what these

2726
02:32:19,520 --> 02:32:21,000
things are, or at least there
shouldn't be.

2727
02:32:21,480 --> 02:32:22,560
Yeah.
Yeah.

2728
02:32:22,560 --> 02:32:24,720
And I think it's.
Just, you know, there's.

2729
02:32:24,720 --> 02:32:29,560
No, there's no wall you can
build up that can that can stop

2730
02:32:30,680 --> 02:32:35,440
goodness, you know, with a
capital GI think that's what

2731
02:32:35,440 --> 02:32:39,560
this movie is like really
ultimately like trying to get

2732
02:32:39,560 --> 02:32:43,920
across, you know, in that in
that like trying to give you

2733
02:32:43,920 --> 02:32:49,920
like an ideal to reflect back to
you like you were saying the the

2734
02:32:49,920 --> 02:32:53,720
whole like convict you by way of
showing you the ideal.

2735
02:32:54,680 --> 02:32:56,520
Yeah, and you?
Know.

2736
02:32:56,520 --> 02:32:58,080
Was Donovan.
Really.

2737
02:32:58,080 --> 02:33:03,720
Like this Angel of a guy, like
like, yeah, definitely not.

2738
02:33:03,720 --> 02:33:04,160
I mean.
Who?

2739
02:33:04,280 --> 02:33:06,000
Who knows?
What he was really like other

2740
02:33:06,000 --> 02:33:07,480
than the people that were around
him.

2741
02:33:07,480 --> 02:33:10,480
But but like the point of the
movie.

2742
02:33:10,480 --> 02:33:13,160
Isn't like.
To portray this real guy in a

2743
02:33:13,160 --> 02:33:16,560
real way, it's like portray
this, like you said, this ideal,

2744
02:33:18,000 --> 02:33:22,120
this kind of humanist ideal that
we should be trying to live up

2745
02:33:22,120 --> 02:33:25,120
to.
It's, I mean, it's you know

2746
02:33:25,440 --> 02:33:31,080
what, what Christians should be
doing with with Jesus is not

2747
02:33:31,080 --> 02:33:37,840
using him as like a a hammer of
sorts, but using him as an image

2748
02:33:37,840 --> 02:33:44,240
to which like you try to like be
like, yeah, which but you.

2749
02:33:44,240 --> 02:33:45,720
Talked about.
Last week or you?

2750
02:33:45,720 --> 02:33:48,520
Will talk about soon, but
because Spielberg's Jesus movie

2751
02:33:48,520 --> 02:33:52,320
is Lincoln, sure, you'll get
you'll get a lot more of of the

2752
02:33:52,400 --> 02:33:55,400
Jesus stuff.
It's coming up soon and you're

2753
02:33:55,400 --> 02:33:58,640
watching and discussing.
Yeah, but yeah, for sure.

2754
02:34:00,400 --> 02:34:02,720
I guess a.
Few other points to hit.

2755
02:34:02,720 --> 02:34:07,080
On before we wrap up the
discussion, some Spielberg

2756
02:34:07,080 --> 02:34:10,120
distinctives.
We've we've touched on these

2757
02:34:10,520 --> 02:34:14,080
kind of all through, but I, you
know, I wanted to mention these

2758
02:34:14,080 --> 02:34:19,920
the the the classical focus
storytelling is like all, you

2759
02:34:19,920 --> 02:34:22,320
know, you get it spurts of it
throughout his career, but it's

2760
02:34:22,320 --> 02:34:24,720
definitely here.
The efficient character building

2761
02:34:26,040 --> 02:34:27,800
fun.
One thing we haven't talked,

2762
02:34:27,920 --> 02:34:31,360
we've like we've mentioned in
passing, like there's some

2763
02:34:31,360 --> 02:34:35,960
really fun transitions in this
movie, really good ones, though.

2764
02:34:36,200 --> 02:34:39,000
One of the ones that stood out
to me is like the there's this

2765
02:34:39,000 --> 02:34:43,720
crossfade where from Abel's face
is on one side of the screen to

2766
02:34:43,720 --> 02:34:48,320
powers on the other side of the
screen showing, you know, yeah,

2767
02:34:48,400 --> 02:34:51,680
the the two spies.
Yeah.

2768
02:34:53,120 --> 02:34:54,920
But I, I liked that little
crossfade.

2769
02:34:56,440 --> 02:35:00,280
And then like, you know, the
other Spielberg distinctives are

2770
02:35:00,280 --> 02:35:03,600
going to be like the way the
camera work, you know, the low

2771
02:35:03,600 --> 02:35:08,680
angle close-ups he that he loves
and silhouettes and, you know,

2772
02:35:08,680 --> 02:35:10,640
all that stuff.
Oh, yeah.

2773
02:35:11,840 --> 02:35:13,160
But yeah.
The.

2774
02:35:13,160 --> 02:35:17,800
Other.
So a fun fact, fun facts

2775
02:35:17,800 --> 02:35:21,800
section, Gary Powers Junior was
in the movie, I forgot to

2776
02:35:21,800 --> 02:35:26,960
mention that, in the cast.
So he was like Acia agent, just

2777
02:35:26,960 --> 02:35:29,400
kind of like an extra walking
along with.

2778
02:35:30,600 --> 02:35:33,400
So he was in there.
He was in the extra features,

2779
02:35:33,480 --> 02:35:36,040
one of the extra features a good
bit, talking about his dad and

2780
02:35:36,040 --> 02:35:40,000
stuff.
And yeah, that's neat, you know?

2781
02:35:40,000 --> 02:35:42,720
Just kind of talking.
About how like kind of what you

2782
02:35:42,720 --> 02:35:44,000
were mentioning earlier, how
his.

2783
02:35:44,000 --> 02:35:46,240
Dad was seen.
As like.

2784
02:35:48,160 --> 02:35:52,240
Just like a problem.
And really, like, it wasn't

2785
02:35:52,240 --> 02:35:55,280
until after his death when all
the classified stuff came out

2786
02:35:55,440 --> 02:35:59,560
that showed like, no, like he
was, he was like held his

2787
02:35:59,560 --> 02:36:03,880
integrity and didn't give up
anything that he posthumously

2788
02:36:03,880 --> 02:36:10,160
got like four or five awards.
The other fun fact is.

2789
02:36:12,280 --> 02:36:15,720
That this is also something that
Spielberg and Scorsese talk

2790
02:36:15,720 --> 02:36:18,480
about is in the background of
one of the scenes.

2791
02:36:18,480 --> 02:36:22,920
There's this Berlin cinema and
it has I'm going to read out the

2792
02:36:22,920 --> 02:36:26,680
movies that are that say are
showing at this Berlin cinema. 1

2793
02:36:26,680 --> 02:36:33,720
is Village of the Damned, a Wolf
Rilla movie from 1960 which was

2794
02:36:34,760 --> 02:36:37,160
a sci-fi movie with strong.
Anti communist.

2795
02:36:37,600 --> 02:36:44,280
Slant One was Billy Wilder's
comedy 123 and 61 which is set

2796
02:36:44,440 --> 02:36:50,000
in the German Capital, One was a
German movie The Secret of the

2797
02:36:50,000 --> 02:36:54,440
Black Suitcase by Werner
Klingler from 1960 which is a W

2798
02:36:54,440 --> 02:36:59,440
German thriller and the last one
is Spartacus Kubrick movie.

2799
02:36:59,480 --> 02:37:02,400
Which I guess if.
We're going to keep making the

2800
02:37:02,400 --> 02:37:05,080
connections.
The script of that was Dalton

2801
02:37:05,080 --> 02:37:08,960
Trumbo, who was blacklisted in
the Hollywood Communist which.

2802
02:37:09,240 --> 02:37:13,040
So some fun, some fun stuff
going on there in the

2803
02:37:13,040 --> 02:37:16,320
background.
How fun I.

2804
02:37:16,360 --> 02:37:17,960
Don't you like Spartacus?
I don't like you've seen

2805
02:37:18,120 --> 02:37:18,680
Spartacus.
It's.

2806
02:37:18,680 --> 02:37:19,920
A blind spot?
Haven't seen it.

2807
02:37:20,440 --> 02:37:22,200
Oh yeah.
It's like maybe my least

2808
02:37:22,200 --> 02:37:23,520
favorite.
Of all Kubrick's, I've been

2809
02:37:23,520 --> 02:37:27,440
slowly filling in my Kubrick.
Blind spots so I'll get to it

2810
02:37:27,680 --> 02:37:31,480
eventually, but yeah I used to
do like 1 Kubrick a year.

2811
02:37:31,920 --> 02:37:33,440
And I feel like I needed that my
son to recover.

2812
02:37:33,520 --> 02:37:34,560
Yeah.
Like between them.

2813
02:37:35,440 --> 02:37:37,480
But I've, I've since worked
through all of them, so I don't

2814
02:37:37,480 --> 02:37:38,600
feel that way as much.
Yeah.

2815
02:37:38,720 --> 02:37:41,040
But yeah, Spartacus is here.
OK.

2816
02:37:41,600 --> 02:37:43,800
Yeah, it's still Kubrick for.
Sure.

2817
02:37:47,880 --> 02:37:49,640
I think as Spielberg, Spielberg
really likes.

2818
02:37:49,800 --> 02:37:52,280
Spartacus.
Yeah, I can see that.

2819
02:37:52,280 --> 02:37:54,760
He has a he has a great affinity
for Spartacus.

2820
02:37:55,160 --> 02:37:57,280
It shows up like a lot of times
in a lot of his movies.

2821
02:37:57,280 --> 02:37:59,440
But it's also a movie about
moral conviction.

2822
02:38:00,400 --> 02:38:02,880
So it kind of makes sense that
that would be, that'd be a good

2823
02:38:02,880 --> 02:38:04,760
one to call out in a movie like
this, you know?

2824
02:38:05,560 --> 02:38:09,640
Yeah, I am Donovan.
I'm Donovan.

2825
02:38:12,200 --> 02:38:14,680
Yeah.
And I guess like.

2826
02:38:15,720 --> 02:38:19,600
The were there.
So before we wrap up with some

2827
02:38:19,600 --> 02:38:24,040
final thoughts, were there any
like other just like moments or

2828
02:38:24,040 --> 02:38:27,960
quotes or like things that we
haven't touched on that like

2829
02:38:27,960 --> 02:38:31,840
really stand out to you?
No, I'll just I'll.

2830
02:38:31,840 --> 02:38:33,680
Just kind of say.
It again and it was it was kind

2831
02:38:33,680 --> 02:38:35,600
of fun to do a little more
research in the movie and find

2832
02:38:35,600 --> 02:38:39,680
out that this thing that I felt
in the movie where it feels like

2833
02:38:40,560 --> 02:38:43,000
that wet clay thing that like.
Spielberg.

2834
02:38:43,000 --> 02:38:45,000
Is like his hands are in it and
he's kind of figured out as he

2835
02:38:45,000 --> 02:38:50,920
goes along and it's it's a
little bit more alive in a way

2836
02:38:50,920 --> 02:38:54,680
that some of his movies, none of
his movies don't feel UN alive,

2837
02:38:55,080 --> 02:38:57,200
right.
Some of them feel much more

2838
02:38:57,200 --> 02:39:01,800
planned out than this one does
and it's I think that's fun to

2839
02:39:01,800 --> 02:39:06,160
watch and I did I did hear him.
He said in something that like a

2840
02:39:06,160 --> 02:39:08,360
lot of days he would show and be
like, I don't know what we're

2841
02:39:08,360 --> 02:39:10,400
going to do today exactly.
I I know what we're shooting,

2842
02:39:10,400 --> 02:39:11,440
but I don't know how I'm going
to do it.

2843
02:39:11,720 --> 02:39:13,800
And he would like figure it out
on on the day.

2844
02:39:14,080 --> 02:39:17,920
And he enjoyed doing that after
coming from a lot of movies

2845
02:39:17,920 --> 02:39:21,480
where they were much more
storyboarded out and planned

2846
02:39:21,480 --> 02:39:24,400
out.
So I I just like that you can

2847
02:39:24,400 --> 02:39:29,600
just is it a thing I enjoy to
steal a line from Hamilton is a

2848
02:39:29,600 --> 02:39:31,920
mind at work.
And I like when you can feel

2849
02:39:31,920 --> 02:39:35,480
someone working and figuring it
out as they go along.

2850
02:39:35,960 --> 02:39:36,960
And you can feel that in this
movie.

2851
02:39:36,960 --> 02:39:37,560
And it's fun.
Yeah.

2852
02:39:38,040 --> 02:39:39,840
Yeah.
And I think that's.

2853
02:39:39,840 --> 02:39:44,400
Something too like as he he goes
along in his career, you start

2854
02:39:44,400 --> 02:39:49,480
to see like him more and more
like in, you know, you know,

2855
02:39:49,480 --> 02:39:51,720
I'll watch all the special
features of all these movies and

2856
02:39:51,720 --> 02:39:54,240
more and more he talks about
like, yeah, I didn't really

2857
02:39:54,240 --> 02:39:57,520
storyboard for this one for as
much for this one.

2858
02:39:57,520 --> 02:40:01,000
And it's like more and more of
that and more of him talking

2859
02:40:01,000 --> 02:40:04,600
about yeah, I like to just show
up on set and like fill out the

2860
02:40:04,600 --> 02:40:08,960
space and and see like what the
space feels like.

2861
02:40:08,960 --> 02:40:11,480
And.
And then we we kind of like go

2862
02:40:11,480 --> 02:40:14,640
from there on like like they
have a general like, OK, we're

2863
02:40:14,640 --> 02:40:18,040
shooting these scenes today, but
like the details of like.

2864
02:40:18,520 --> 02:40:22,000
Where exactly you're putting the
camera and the actors and like

2865
02:40:22,000 --> 02:40:25,200
the composition of the shots.
Like he's kind of like feeling

2866
02:40:25,200 --> 02:40:29,840
out on the day on the set.
So yeah, you can definitely feel

2867
02:40:29,840 --> 02:40:33,160
some of that in this movie.
I think it.

2868
02:40:33,160 --> 02:40:36,320
I think it.
Contributes to what I, what I

2869
02:40:36,360 --> 02:40:40,440
with some people might call like
a there's like a less urgency in

2870
02:40:40,440 --> 02:40:42,240
his film.
Is this kind of later films of

2871
02:40:42,240 --> 02:40:43,960
his career.
And it's kind of a more of a

2872
02:40:43,960 --> 02:40:49,200
slackness to some of them.
And I'm OK with it because I

2873
02:40:49,200 --> 02:40:51,640
don't need every movie to feel
like the edge of the lost art,

2874
02:40:51,640 --> 02:40:55,680
you know, or Jurassic Park.
It it's I like that he gets to

2875
02:40:55,680 --> 02:40:57,000
do this.
He's Spielberg.

2876
02:40:57,040 --> 02:40:58,120
Go for it.
Absolutely.

2877
02:40:58,280 --> 02:41:01,320
And then you can come along and
you can you can put something

2878
02:41:01,320 --> 02:41:07,760
out like West Side Story that is
every bit as crisp and sharp and

2879
02:41:07,760 --> 02:41:09,080
urgent as anything he's ever
done.

2880
02:41:09,360 --> 02:41:10,400
And so, you know, he's still got
it.

2881
02:41:10,400 --> 02:41:12,840
If he wants to, he's gonna have
to, right?

2882
02:41:13,960 --> 02:41:14,720
Yeah.
Yeah.

2883
02:41:15,200 --> 02:41:19,320
I think one of the ways.
It plays out in this one is just

2884
02:41:19,320 --> 02:41:22,800
like that Donovan Abel
relationship because I know at

2885
02:41:22,800 --> 02:41:26,200
one point he had talked about,
you know, wanting to have way

2886
02:41:26,200 --> 02:41:30,640
more scenes of them together.
But realizing at some point in

2887
02:41:30,640 --> 02:41:34,120
the movie as they were like
approaching the bridge scene,

2888
02:41:35,240 --> 02:41:38,720
realizing like, oh, this absence
is actually going to make this

2889
02:41:38,720 --> 02:41:43,320
scene more powerful.
And so like ended up not adding

2890
02:41:43,320 --> 02:41:46,840
in all any more extra scenes
with them together in between.

2891
02:41:48,680 --> 02:41:50,680
And so like, and you really feel
that too.

2892
02:41:50,680 --> 02:41:57,360
Like the you, the the character
Abel is Abel is Abel.

2893
02:41:57,360 --> 02:42:01,400
In that scene.
But you can see he's really like

2894
02:42:01,400 --> 02:42:05,720
assessing.
Where Donovan?

2895
02:42:05,720 --> 02:42:12,880
Has come at that point from
their standing man conversation,

2896
02:42:12,880 --> 02:42:17,080
you know, and like assessing,
you know.

2897
02:42:17,080 --> 02:42:20,000
He has it's it's one.
Of those pregnant pause moments

2898
02:42:20,040 --> 02:42:22,360
where he looks at him before he
says I can wait.

2899
02:42:24,080 --> 02:42:25,800
That's that's really.
Powerful and.

2900
02:42:26,160 --> 02:42:30,720
Kind of comes out of that like
absence that you've been missing

2901
02:42:31,120 --> 02:42:33,600
from them two together up to
that point.

2902
02:42:35,720 --> 02:42:37,240
That was one of my favorite
moments.

2903
02:42:37,240 --> 02:42:39,760
Was that just that simple?
Like I can wait?

2904
02:42:40,840 --> 02:42:43,400
Yeah.
Like recognizing the, the

2905
02:42:43,400 --> 02:42:47,960
integrity and the hard work and
he, he's kind of just taking all

2906
02:42:47,960 --> 02:42:51,720
of that and then that moment
putting together like he's, he's

2907
02:42:51,720 --> 02:42:54,880
a smart dude like you, you know,
cuz he's a spy.

2908
02:42:56,160 --> 02:42:59,280
He's just putting together all
the pieces of like realizing

2909
02:42:59,280 --> 02:43:04,480
what this guy has been up to and
saying like, OK, I can wait, you

2910
02:43:04,480 --> 02:43:05,360
know?
Yeah, yeah.

2911
02:43:06,720 --> 02:43:11,840
Love that moment.
Yeah, I had this.

2912
02:43:11,840 --> 02:43:15,240
Like final thought.
That I wanted to like throw out

2913
02:43:15,240 --> 02:43:19,000
there and then you can tell me
like if you what you think about

2914
02:43:19,000 --> 02:43:22,720
this so I think I.
Think.

2915
02:43:22,720 --> 02:43:25,720
There's this progression because
we've been talking about Donovan

2916
02:43:25,720 --> 02:43:31,400
a lot and his his moral like his
moral stances and I, I.

2917
02:43:31,400 --> 02:43:33,680
Think those are there?
Through the movie, But I think

2918
02:43:33,680 --> 02:43:39,760
there's this like progression.
So I, I think he starts off his

2919
02:43:40,160 --> 02:43:43,560
leading virtue.
The way you're introduced to him

2920
02:43:43,560 --> 02:43:47,920
is he's a guy that does his job
well by the books and that's

2921
02:43:47,920 --> 02:43:53,960
what his virtue is.
His virtue is, is this like it's

2922
02:43:54,040 --> 02:43:57,680
it's kind of this ethic of like
following the rules and doing

2923
02:43:57,680 --> 02:44:02,520
that and following the rules
well that it seems like he he

2924
02:44:02,520 --> 02:44:06,920
kind of goes by.
And I think over the course of

2925
02:44:06,920 --> 02:44:11,320
the movie and his interactions
with Abel and just there's

2926
02:44:11,680 --> 02:44:15,280
there's this like natural
ambition that he has that like

2927
02:44:15,280 --> 02:44:19,800
drives him into that ethic.
And I think it morphs into a

2928
02:44:19,800 --> 02:44:25,200
greater ethic over the movie or
maybe like maybe a better way to

2929
02:44:25,200 --> 02:44:29,800
put it as a deeper ethic.
Even it's I don't think it's

2930
02:44:29,800 --> 02:44:36,280
explicitly like named obviously,
but I think so I think he starts

2931
02:44:36,680 --> 02:44:40,480
basically my my take is this.
He starts off with this lesser

2932
02:44:40,480 --> 02:44:48,840
value of like I'm going to do
with integrity, my job well and

2933
02:44:48,840 --> 02:44:53,680
pushing following his ambition
into that ethic leads him to a

2934
02:44:53,680 --> 02:44:56,400
deeper ethic of like of
compassion.

2935
02:44:56,400 --> 02:44:58,560
Really.
I think he over.

2936
02:44:58,880 --> 02:45:01,440
I don't think he starts off the
movie like feeling great

2937
02:45:01,440 --> 02:45:05,880
compassion for Abel.
I think he's just like this is

2938
02:45:05,880 --> 02:45:09,800
my job, I'm going to do it well,
but I think by like leaning into

2939
02:45:09,800 --> 02:45:14,160
that lesser.
In a way not.

2940
02:45:14,160 --> 02:45:17,720
Lesser in the sense that like
it's not important, but just

2941
02:45:17,720 --> 02:45:23,000
like at a, at a more shallow
level ethic of doing your job

2942
02:45:23,000 --> 02:45:26,520
well, it leads him into a
deeper, yeah, into a deeper

2943
02:45:26,520 --> 02:45:31,280
ethic of compassion.
And I don't know, I think

2944
02:45:31,280 --> 02:45:34,760
there's this like one of the
things I was thinking about.

2945
02:45:34,760 --> 02:45:41,240
Was just.
How impatient we've become with

2946
02:45:41,240 --> 02:45:47,080
those lesser virtues.
And it just feels like people

2947
02:45:47,080 --> 02:45:51,600
are less and less, or I guess I
should say more and more like

2948
02:45:52,000 --> 02:45:57,040
giving up on those lesser
virtues before it leads them

2949
02:45:57,040 --> 02:46:00,120
into deeper virtues like
compassion.

2950
02:46:00,520 --> 02:46:03,000
And I don't know, that's just
something that I saw in the

2951
02:46:03,000 --> 02:46:06,320
movie.
This progression of Donovan that

2952
02:46:06,320 --> 02:46:10,040
I think is just another way that
he can be like held up as this

2953
02:46:10,040 --> 02:46:13,920
ideal of like this is what can
happen if, if we really like

2954
02:46:14,200 --> 02:46:19,240
lean into these this it's it's
almost like an easier ethic, you

2955
02:46:19,240 --> 02:46:23,240
know, to follow of like, OK, I'm
going to have integrity in my

2956
02:46:23,240 --> 02:46:26,760
profession and do this.
Well, if you can lean into that,

2957
02:46:27,840 --> 02:46:30,600
then eventually, like if you
push into it far enough, you're

2958
02:46:30,600 --> 02:46:36,160
going to get 2 of some deeper
ethic underneath that, which I

2959
02:46:36,160 --> 02:46:37,560
think in this case is
compassion.

2960
02:46:37,560 --> 02:46:42,880
I think he really does grow a
great compassion for, for Abel

2961
02:46:43,520 --> 02:46:45,840
is the main one.
But even like he has the

2962
02:46:45,840 --> 02:46:49,880
interaction with powers on the
on the plane where he like

2963
02:46:50,200 --> 02:46:51,800
throws that bit of wisdom at
him.

2964
02:46:51,840 --> 02:46:56,400
I think he has great compassion
for him in that moment and I

2965
02:46:56,400 --> 02:46:58,040
don't know, that's just another.
Thing I saw.

2966
02:46:58,040 --> 02:47:01,440
That I thought it would be a fun
final thought.

2967
02:47:01,440 --> 02:47:04,200
Not fun, but like a good take
away.

2968
02:47:04,200 --> 02:47:06,360
Final thought.
I don't know.

2969
02:47:06,360 --> 02:47:07,640
Do you do you think that's
there?

2970
02:47:09,200 --> 02:47:10,360
Yeah, I do.
I do.

2971
02:47:10,360 --> 02:47:14,360
I think that the.
I think that I like, I like that

2972
02:47:14,680 --> 02:47:20,600
I like that framing of it.
I feel like his his like first

2973
02:47:20,600 --> 02:47:28,280
commitment is to the law, right?
And and this is what the law.

2974
02:47:28,280 --> 02:47:29,680
Says to do this is what we
should do.

2975
02:47:30,200 --> 02:47:32,400
You know, it's like it was very
matter of fact about it.

2976
02:47:32,920 --> 02:47:36,760
And it's interesting because I
mean, you can think we can think

2977
02:47:36,760 --> 02:47:42,640
of the law as like Paul says,
like being something that points

2978
02:47:42,640 --> 02:47:46,080
out our sinfulness to us.
You know, like could we can't

2979
02:47:46,080 --> 02:47:49,440
live up to it or whatever.
But we can also think about the

2980
02:47:49,440 --> 02:47:52,720
law as in like, well, this is
what it was meant for.

2981
02:47:53,240 --> 02:47:58,160
It was meant for why don't you
practice these easy things and

2982
02:47:58,160 --> 02:48:02,160
they can lead you to the greater
things, you know, practice the

2983
02:48:02,160 --> 02:48:07,480
easy thing of not eating that
kind of meat.

2984
02:48:07,880 --> 02:48:11,560
You know that's not that's not
in.

2985
02:48:11,560 --> 02:48:15,160
The grand scheme that hard of a.
Thing to do whatever, but it can

2986
02:48:15,160 --> 02:48:21,880
lead you to a, you know, a
respect for your body.

2987
02:48:21,960 --> 02:48:25,120
For other people's bodies.
For help for the environment,

2988
02:48:25,400 --> 02:48:27,120
you know, for all these things
like, so you'll lead you, like

2989
02:48:27,120 --> 02:48:31,480
you're saying, from like a
lesser virtue to a, to a greater

2990
02:48:31,560 --> 02:48:33,840
1 to a deeper one.
Yeah, maybe that's what God

2991
02:48:33,840 --> 02:48:36,320
intended for the law to do.
And I think that's that's why

2992
02:48:36,440 --> 02:48:39,560
Jesus is so.
Angry with the religious leaders

2993
02:48:39,640 --> 02:48:41,440
because he's saying no, no, no,
no.

2994
02:48:41,440 --> 02:48:46,320
You've taken these in it, in
the, in the way we're talking

2995
02:48:46,320 --> 02:48:47,880
about it, the language we're
talking about it.

2996
02:48:47,880 --> 02:48:51,240
Yeah, You've taken this lesser
virtue and you've just added a

2997
02:48:51,240 --> 02:48:55,360
bunch more, maybe even shallower
than that virtues around it.

2998
02:48:56,240 --> 02:48:58,040
No, you're supposed to go
deeper.

2999
02:48:58,040 --> 02:48:59,800
With it.
You were, you know, you've heard

3000
02:48:59,800 --> 02:49:01,800
it said.
And I say, like the whole Sermon

3001
02:49:01,800 --> 02:49:04,920
on the Mount stuff, it's like
him showing like, no, no, no,

3002
02:49:04,920 --> 02:49:07,600
you've gotten it all wrong.
These lesser things were

3003
02:49:07,600 --> 02:49:09,720
supposed to lead you to these
deeper things.

3004
02:49:10,680 --> 02:49:14,160
These like negative instructions
were supposed to lead you toward

3005
02:49:14,160 --> 02:49:21,200
the positive actions.
And yeah, I think that is subtly

3006
02:49:21,200 --> 02:49:23,480
there in this movie.
Yeah.

3007
02:49:23,480 --> 02:49:25,240
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.

3008
02:49:27,280 --> 02:49:29,680
Yeah.
I think that's.

3009
02:49:29,680 --> 02:49:32,840
It I mean, I think we've I think
we covered everything.

3010
02:49:32,840 --> 02:49:35,440
There's nothing else to talk
about with this movie ever

3011
02:49:35,440 --> 02:49:36,960
again.
Despise I've never had, never

3012
02:49:36,960 --> 02:49:38,040
have to watch it again, never
think.

3013
02:49:38,040 --> 02:49:39,440
About it ever again.
Again.

3014
02:49:40,800 --> 02:49:43,000
Yeah.
So where so you mentioned a

3015
02:49:43,000 --> 02:49:45,560
little bit where does this,
where do you think this falls

3016
02:49:45,560 --> 02:49:50,680
for you with like Spielberg in
your arbitrary ranking, very

3017
02:49:50,680 --> 02:49:54,680
arbitrary making?
I mean, Spielberg, one of those

3018
02:49:54,680 --> 02:49:55,960
film makers were like.
There's like a.

3019
02:49:55,960 --> 02:49:58,040
Whole tier, the distance
between.

3020
02:49:58,440 --> 02:50:01,320
The distance between the.
Top and the bottom is not a very

3021
02:50:01,320 --> 02:50:05,120
large distance, you know,
because even even a movie like

3022
02:50:05,120 --> 02:50:09,840
always is interesting and even
movie like Hook has a lot of

3023
02:50:10,200 --> 02:50:14,440
amazing things.
And so I don't know though, if

3024
02:50:14,440 --> 02:50:17,680
I'm going to use the tiers.
It's mid tier Spielberg.

3025
02:50:18,680 --> 02:50:20,840
I think that's only, but it's
like high mid tier.

3026
02:50:21,040 --> 02:50:24,080
It's high mid tier Spielberg.
Really good mid tier Spielberg.

3027
02:50:24,080 --> 02:50:27,640
Yeah, you know, well, I was
looking and it's like I was

3028
02:50:27,640 --> 02:50:30,520
like, oh man.
I can put this like after I

3029
02:50:30,520 --> 02:50:32,040
finished, I was like, this is so
good.

3030
02:50:32,040 --> 02:50:34,320
I could put this up toward the
top, but then I was like looking

3031
02:50:34,320 --> 02:50:38,680
at the movies and I was like, I
can't put it above so many of.

3032
02:50:38,680 --> 02:50:41,800
These and.
Yeah, but it feels like it.

3033
02:50:42,480 --> 02:50:44,320
You.
Know a lot of other directors.

3034
02:50:44,320 --> 02:50:45,280
It would.
Be at the top.

3035
02:50:45,280 --> 02:50:47,360
You know they'd be their best
movie, right?

3036
02:50:47,400 --> 02:50:50,840
Yeah.
Yeah, I know it's AI mean when

3037
02:50:50,840 --> 02:50:53,120
you're Spielberg and you've made
movies that change the world.

3038
02:50:53,200 --> 02:50:56,920
I mean, you know when you've
when you've made when you've

3039
02:50:56,920 --> 02:51:01,720
made Jaws, close Encounters and
Raiders and ET and Jurassic Park

3040
02:51:02,040 --> 02:51:05,040
and Schindler's List and it just
goes on and on.

3041
02:51:05,120 --> 02:51:06,480
Private ride.
Yeah.

3042
02:51:08,760 --> 02:51:10,880
Oh man.
In Lincoln.

3043
02:51:11,880 --> 02:51:14,680
Yeah, yeah, I'm excited to after
this conversation.

3044
02:51:14,680 --> 02:51:15,720
I'm excited to.
Get.

3045
02:51:15,920 --> 02:51:16,680
Get.
To Lincoln.

3046
02:51:16,680 --> 02:51:21,480
So yeah, I'll give you a little.
You'll have a great.

3047
02:51:21,480 --> 02:51:23,120
Conversation about Lincoln,
you'll get into it.

3048
02:51:23,120 --> 02:51:27,560
But I, I did, I did a thing with
Lincoln for a, for a New

3049
02:51:27,560 --> 02:51:31,320
Testament class, OK, I was doing
an independent study with a

3050
02:51:31,720 --> 02:51:34,680
professor at Fuller and he was
teaching an intro in New

3051
02:51:34,680 --> 02:51:36,960
Testament class.
And he wanted me to do a thing

3052
02:51:37,400 --> 02:51:41,600
to help the students in the
class like treat the Gospels as

3053
02:51:41,600 --> 02:51:45,120
stories and not just as like,
you know, a textbook.

3054
02:51:46,560 --> 02:51:49,200
And so I was like, OK, let's use
Lincoln.

3055
02:51:49,520 --> 02:51:50,920
And I had the class watch
Lincoln.

3056
02:51:50,920 --> 02:51:54,960
And we talked about how Lincoln
is structured and how Lincoln is

3057
02:51:54,960 --> 02:51:58,640
structured like a gospel, like
the Gospel of Mark or something.

3058
02:51:59,760 --> 02:52:05,080
And we like parallel the two.
And that was lots of fun and it

3059
02:52:05,080 --> 02:52:05,720
works.
Really.

3060
02:52:05,720 --> 02:52:08,240
Well, that's.
Cool, because it's a story about

3061
02:52:09,640 --> 02:52:11,840
a savior who just like.
Walks around telling.

3062
02:52:11,840 --> 02:52:16,200
Stories all the time about stuff
and is trying to accomplish

3063
02:52:16,200 --> 02:52:19,200
something so everything is
communicating these stories

3064
02:52:19,200 --> 02:52:21,840
around them.
Ragtag group of disciples.

3065
02:52:21,840 --> 02:52:26,000
Ran anywhere out.
There causing a ruckus and he's

3066
02:52:26,000 --> 02:52:31,320
he's you know he's crucified and
maybe resurrected in the end you

3067
02:52:31,560 --> 02:52:36,920
know so it's a very Jesus movie
it's yeah yeah no that's cool

3068
02:52:37,360 --> 02:52:39,760
fun yeah I'll.
Definitely like keep that in.

3069
02:52:39,760 --> 02:52:42,960
The back of my mind.
Yeah, watching it.

3070
02:52:45,160 --> 02:52:46,880
Yeah, that.
Was last week actually.

3071
02:52:47,440 --> 02:52:49,840
Lincoln or a couple weeks ago, I
guess.

3072
02:52:50,760 --> 02:52:55,400
Yeah.
And next week we're gonna do a

3073
02:52:55,400 --> 02:52:57,600
movie, a movie draft to go along
with this.

3074
02:52:57,600 --> 02:52:59,560
We're going to do a Cold War
movie draft.

3075
02:53:01,280 --> 02:53:04,080
Pretty exciting to to dig into
some of these.

3076
02:53:04,520 --> 02:53:10,120
So yeah, that'll be next week.
Then we'll be getting into the

3077
02:53:10,120 --> 02:53:14,960
BFG, so that'll be fun too.
Yeah, that's, that's really all

3078
02:53:14,960 --> 02:53:20,000
we have this week.
Just a reminder, if you want to

3079
02:53:20,000 --> 02:53:26,000
find out more about Elijah's
work and where to follow him and

3080
02:53:26,000 --> 02:53:30,320
sign up for his newsletter and
see all of his his books and

3081
02:53:30,320 --> 02:53:34,320
like come and see and stuff, you
can go to elijahdavidson.com

3082
02:53:34,480 --> 02:53:35,720
real easy.
Yep.

3083
02:53:35,840 --> 02:53:38,440
And I'll link that pretty easy
episode description too.

3084
02:53:38,440 --> 02:53:39,560
So that'll be.
Easy to.

3085
02:53:39,560 --> 02:53:42,440
Click on.
But yeah, can I just say it real

3086
02:53:42,440 --> 02:53:43,680
quick?
This is a goofy thing.

3087
02:53:43,680 --> 02:53:45,000
This is.
You can cut this out if you

3088
02:53:45,040 --> 02:53:49,280
don't care, but it's, you know,
it's my, it's my own website.

3089
02:53:49,280 --> 02:53:53,840
Yeah, like that I run and it's
kind, it's just fun to have my

3090
02:53:53,840 --> 02:53:56,200
own website.
Yeah, that's like is on my own

3091
02:53:56,200 --> 02:53:58,760
server and like has my own setup
and all that kind of stuff.

3092
02:53:59,080 --> 02:54:03,680
I've been, I mean, being at
being at the age that I am, I've

3093
02:54:03,680 --> 02:54:07,040
been on the Internet since I was
in junior high.

3094
02:54:07,240 --> 02:54:09,480
Sure, like.
Forever and I've gone through

3095
02:54:09,480 --> 02:54:13,520
like so many iterations of like
having a blog here, A blog there

3096
02:54:13,520 --> 02:54:15,680
or whatever.
And it's fun to be at a place

3097
02:54:15,680 --> 02:54:17,560
where I'm like, Yep, I just have
my own website and it's

3098
02:54:17,560 --> 02:54:20,200
affordable to run and I can do
whatever I want to do with it.

3099
02:54:20,480 --> 02:54:24,000
And I can like have a sign up
thing for come and see and I can

3100
02:54:24,000 --> 02:54:25,920
like do a book and work.
All of your stuff is

3101
02:54:25,920 --> 02:54:28,400
centralized.
I can just do that.

3102
02:54:28,400 --> 02:54:31,840
It's fun and I don't.
Have to worry about like anybody

3103
02:54:31,840 --> 02:54:34,680
coming along and adding ads to
it or screwing it up, you know,

3104
02:54:34,680 --> 02:54:36,000
it's just like my own website to
run.

3105
02:54:36,000 --> 02:54:39,640
It's fun, neat, it's goofy.
There's a little I'm saying

3106
02:54:39,640 --> 02:54:40,960
this.
Part because there are little

3107
02:54:41,320 --> 02:54:45,720
tucked away corners of that
website that one that a visitor

3108
02:54:45,720 --> 02:54:48,280
might not find as they click
around just right and that's

3109
02:54:48,280 --> 02:54:51,160
kind of fun too it's like a DVD
menu with like Easter eggs.

3110
02:54:51,240 --> 02:54:54,760
You know, that's kind of my my
thought process of so that's

3111
02:54:54,760 --> 02:54:57,560
what you should do when.
You finish listening.

3112
02:54:57,560 --> 02:55:01,000
To this episode.
Click the click the link in the

3113
02:55:01,000 --> 02:55:03,960
episode description and they
just start clicking stuff on

3114
02:55:04,080 --> 02:55:05,440
online.
Clicking around, see what you

3115
02:55:05,440 --> 02:55:06,880
find.
You might find stuff that he.

3116
02:55:06,880 --> 02:55:10,240
Didn't even know was there.
Oh no, I know it's all there

3117
02:55:10,440 --> 02:55:11,360
but.
You you may.

3118
02:55:11,360 --> 02:55:12,880
Find stuff you wish you hadn't
found.

3119
02:55:12,920 --> 02:55:14,800
That could happen, That could
happen, so who knows?

3120
02:55:17,200 --> 02:55:18,360
The.
That's.

3121
02:55:19,120 --> 02:55:21,200
Yeah, again, Elijah
davidson.com.

3122
02:55:21,200 --> 02:55:23,080
There's all kinds of fun stuff
on there.

3123
02:55:23,080 --> 02:55:26,720
The DVD menu, circa 2000.
And five.

3124
02:55:27,520 --> 02:55:31,000
I love it.
Yeah, that's all we have for

3125
02:55:31,000 --> 02:55:33,360
this week.
Next week is our Cold War movie

3126
02:55:33,360 --> 02:55:35,680
draft.
But yeah, we are done.

3127
02:55:36,360 --> 02:55:39,400
I have been Eli Price for Elijah
Davison.

3128
02:55:39,400 --> 02:55:41,880
You've been listening to the
establishing shot.

3129
02:55:42,040 --> 02:55:46,000
We will see you next time.
We will not.

3130
02:55:46,040 --> 02:55:52,280
Be here for a little while, but
look I figured this way better

3131
02:55:52,280 --> 02:55:53,400
to.
Be king for a night than.

3132
02:55:53,440 --> 02:55:54,240
Smoke for a lifetime.