Christopher Nolan: An Epilogue

Eli Price (00:39.702)
Hello and welcome to the establishing shot a podcast where we do deep dives into directors and their filmography I am Eli price and I'm here with you for episode 28 of the podcast and We are wrapping up our second ever series on Christopher Nolan Now I know what you're thinking We have not had an Oppenheimer episode

And you would be correct. We have not had an Oppenheimer episode, but I still haven't been able to see Oppenheimer yet. I'm hoping I can potentially do a retrospective once I'm able to get around to doing that. And, and it'll kind of be locked back into the series. I plan to do that really with any director I cover. If they come out with a new film, I plan to cover it.

Um, and it'll be included, um, I guess retrospectively back to that series. Um, so, um, we're actually going to be doing that next week with Wes Anderson's, uh, four shorts, uh, that came out, uh, probably, I don't even know how long ago at this point. Um, but earlier this year, uh, is the, the wonderful story of Henry Sugar and the three other shorter short films that he put out.

We're going to be actually covering that next week. So I'm excited about that. But yeah, it's something I plan to do for any director I cover. So I'll do eventually, hopefully in Hoppin' Niner episode. And yeah, it's something that hopefully I'll get to continue doing for both Wes Anderson and Christopher Nolan as they continue to make films.

One thing I will say, will point out, is that the website for the podcast, if you go to establishingshotpod.com, you can find the podcast website. And on that website, if you go to episodes, click the little dropdown for episodes in the menu, you can see that. You can actually find each series by

Eli Price (03:03.894)
the director that they go with. So there's kind of like a category for Wes Anderson. There's a category for Christopher Nolan. There's even a category for Best Of, because I've done a couple of like, Best of the Year so far, or that sort of, I've done a couple of those sorts of episodes and plan to continue to do that in the future with, you know, a Best of 2023 episode and that sort of thing. So.

You can find that at the website and along with a lot of other stuff that goes along with the podcast. I hope to, um, start getting some just general movie reviews, uh, up on the website as well in the blog section. So yeah, you should go check that out. Um, I will go ahead and plug here instead of doing a call to action later in the episode, I'm going to hit it, hit you up with it right now. And, uh, I'll just, you know, request that you go just check out the, the

way you can support one way you can support the show other than just listening which uh if you do listen to the show consistently i hope that you will continue to do that i appreciate you um i i'm very grateful for that but yeah you can uh go to the you can go to the website if you go to i'm gonna pull it up live on here right now establishing shoppod.com

and you go to, what is it? Under.

Eli Price (04:45.198)
Well, it is not showing up on here.

Eli Price (05:01.21)
Well, okay.

Eli Price (05:08.522)
Yeah, you'll go to establishing shop pod dot com slash donate or find donate in the menu. You'll see some tiers that you can support the show at. I have a five dollar tier, a ten dollar and a fifteen dollar tier. And those just help. For one thing, show me that you love the show and you want to support it. But also it helps me be able to purchase

You know, blu-rays with special features that help with my research and also books that help with my research. Uh, I've, I've read a couple of books with this Christopher Nolan series, uh, and all that costs. It costs to, uh, to host the podcast, uh, host it costs to keep the website running and, uh, all those sorts of things. So, um, if you go, you can support for as low as $5.

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But yeah Maybe I'm if you support the show At a higher tier. I may even let you just choose a random movie that I have to review for the show. So Yeah, which might be fun We'll have to see but yeah, if you if you want to do that, I would greatly appreciate it and Then the other way that you can really help me out is by reviewing

Eli Price (07:29.826)
the show and rating it on Apple and Spotify. For Spotify, you can give it a star rating. Even if you don't listen on Spotify, it would be very helpful. Just jump on. You can scrub through an episode. It doesn't let you rate it unless you've listened to an episode. So you can just click play, scrub through it, and it counts. And so it'll let you throw that star rating, hopefully a five, up for me. And then on Apple Podcasts, again, even if you don't listen on there,

Find the show on Apple Podcasts, which you can do through a link on the website. You can give it a star rating and also a review. A written review helps a ton. I've actually had some written reviews come in for the show that I have not shouted out in the past. I have one from Dave Lester, who has been a guest on the podcast before. Dave.

He has a couple of podcasts of his own, one that he co-hosts with another guy called the Veterans of Culture Wars, and he has a podcast that's relatively new. I've been listening to it, and that one is called Does the Bible Say That? Where he kind of goes through the Bible kind of verse by verse, chapter by chapter, and it's really interesting too, so you should check those out. But Dave...

He says, five stars, excellent film podcast. I love the format of this podcast, which has the hosts and guests going through various directors filmographies. It is fascinating to listen to the discussions while tracking artists work over time, highly recommend. Thank you for that, Dave. I also have a five star review from Chables, the Gadabout, which I believe is Chase, who is my brother-in-law, who was a guest for the

I Love Dogs episode. He says, Five stars, fantastic show. The hosts love for movies and for the craft of filmmakers he chooses to talk about comes through clearly. Always good conversations about the quality information. If you love film, you'll love the show. Thank you, Chase, for that. And then I actually had another one come in, a five star review. It says the establishing shot.

Eli Price (09:48.642)
Podcast is a must listen for film aficionados with insightful analysis and engaging interviews It caters to a broad audience highly recommend and that is from Johnny rocket five I Appreciate that Johnny Yeah, if you can take just it just takes a minute of your time to jump on there give a review It really helps the visibility of the podcast get more people listening. So I'd appreciate that But that is enough of that call to action

From here on out, we are going to be talking about Christopher Nolan. When I set out to do this podcast, and I've talked about this in the past, I really just wanted to have an outlet for just talking about directors and going through their filmographies. It's a really good excuse to watch through a director's filmography, you know, chronologically.

from when they released them, which is just to me a really fun and interesting way to watch movies and to experience a filmmaker. When I set out to do this, I didn't actually think I was going to do a Christopher Nolan series this early, but it was just like, man, I've seen all his movies. I own a decent amount of them on Blu-ray and DVD.

So it was just kind of like, okay, I think I'm going to jump into Christopher Nolan. He's a filmmaker that I've always had a great appreciation for. And yeah, I just really, really love this endeavor of watching through a director's filmographies. I hope if you've listened through this series that you've really enjoyed all the deep dive discussions of Christopher Nolan.

Uh, but perhaps you're jumping in for the first time. Uh, that's, that's you then great. I'm, I'm glad you're listening. Uh, you know, this, this whole podcast is a pretty spoilery podcast. We do deep dives. We talk about everything. And so, um, if you jump into the, the movie specific episode, you'll, you'll really get some, some deep information there on the filmmaking process.

Eli Price (12:14.51)
the themes and whatnot in the movies, our thoughts. And so please go back and do that. You can jump into the Wes Anderson series. You can jump back to our overview episode on Nolan that we started with and go through his films. But today, what I'm gonna be doing is kind of doing, I like to call it my epilogue for the series. It's sort of a look back over what I've learned about Christopher Nolan, what I've learned about his

filmmaking, what I've learned about film in general, and just some of my overall takeaways from this series on Christopher Nolan. And yeah, I really hope that you will enjoy this episode and that you maybe have some takeaways of your own. If you do, just one other quick plug. There is a place where you can leave a voicemail on the website. If you go on the mobile.

website, you'll see over kind of on the right hand side, it says send a voicemail. I believe it's in the same place if you go on your computer. You can hit that and you can record a little voicemail for me and I'd love to include that on future shows. So if that's something you want to do, kind of share maybe a takeaway that you've had watching through Nolan's filmography. That would be awesome. I'd love to include that.

in a future episode So, um, please do that if you if you want to But jumping into Nolan, I really think you can trace the trajectory of who Nolan is Through his life all the way from his cinematic experiences as a child To his time in boarding school in London going and watching movies and then listening to film scores on his Walkman

after hours to his obsessive tinkering with an editing machine in college and watching movies with his film club that he started to his determination to make a film on his own terms with no budget, uh, with the movie following. And then through his willingness to challenge his audience over and over again, uh, both his audience and the studios really, um, to the chagrin and amazement of the, the studios, he really has come to define.

Eli Price (14:36.566)
big budget Hollywood for his generation of filmmakers. And, you know, digging into his films over the course of this series, it's really easy to see why that is. It's hard to come away from a series like this, digging into a filmmaker like Nolan and not have just great respect for him to the greatest degree really. And I think that's the case, even if you don't really like

all of his films or a lot of his films or most of his films. When you go through a series like this and you do the research, you know, I'm doing all this research and looking into the filmmaking process and whatnot. And I really feel like even if I came away and didn't like any of these movies, which we know isn't the case with Christopher Nolan, but even if I came away from this and didn't really care for a lot of the movies, you still can...

grow a great respect for this filmmaker and his craft and what he does. You know, or she hopefully covering some female directors in future series. But yeah, you just grow a great respect for these filmmakers in series like this. And I already had a great respect for Nolan, but it's grown so much doing this, just as it did for when I did Wes Anderson.

But I kind of have these from here on out kind of sectioned off with little titles. So I will the title of this first section is the Blockbuster Alture. This is kind of my first takeaway from the series. And I really feel like his background in boarding school, his boarding school in London background. He really.

I think in that environment learned how to both navigate rules, the rules of the environment, with some subtle and measured rebellions, if you will. When you go to all boys boarding school, you kind of learn what you can get away with, what you can't get away with, how to push kind of against the boundaries that have been put up for you.

Eli Price (17:02.418)
And I really think that environment really set him up for success, uh, future in his future life. Uh, you know, I'm not saying like, Oh, send your kids to boarding school. If you want them to be a filmmaker.

But it's one of those things where this was his life, and this is who he is and how he's turned out. And I think it really worked out for him. And I think it's because he learned how to manipulate the system, if you will. He learned not to be afraid to challenge and push up against the status quo in that environment, just as he has in the studio system.

Um, he, he has pushed the status quo of making blockbuster studio movies in an age where you to get a big budget, you really have to be making some IP stuff. You have to be doing a super viewer franchise or, you know, remaking ghost bust, a ghost busters movie, um, rebooting, you know, whatever it may be. Um,

doing a Mission Impossible movie or a James Bond movie, you know, these are the types of movies you usually have to do to get a big budget. But Christopher Nolan is pushed up against that status quo. And another thing that I think he's done is that he has earned respect and respect and freedom within this system because he has done. The most with both little and much.

Um, just looking all the way back to following and how he made that movie with zero budget and there's aspects of it where you can say, oh yeah, this movie had no budget, right? Um, a lot of it is in the acting, honestly. Um, but then, you know, you know, some, it's not like the camera work and everything is the best or the cinematography isn't the best and, but he did the most with that no budget, right? And.

Eli Price (19:11.046)
As you watch through his filmography, you see that he really did the most with what budget he had. And I mean, even Tenet, you know, making a movie, a $200 million movie like Tenet, that just has these huge action set pieces. He is really, really trying to do as much as he possibly can with that money.

usually comes through on the screen. And it is something too, that I think the studios really appreciate when they put his movies out and distribute them and they hit theaters and these big movies, they do so much. One of the, I think a really prime example was the Prestige. The Prestige had somewhere around a $40 million budget, I believe, but it looks like a huge budget movie.

A $40 million is a lot of money, obviously, but really that's kind of a mid-budget movie and it looks like a big budget movie. It looks like it has the feel of one. He does some location shooting very strategically to really get the most. I think a lot of that too comes from Emma Thomas, his wife, who's a producer on all of his films. She really...

uh, knows how to stretch a budget, um, and, and help, uh, Nolan be able to do that. And so really just earning that respect within the studio system so that you have the freedom to make these movies that you want to make, uh, is something that he has done. He's, he's the blockbuster Alture asset for this section. What is an Alture? Uh, if you're, if you're, you know, a film person, you probably already know.

Generally what an altar is but it originates back to kind of 1950s French film criticism And what it originally referred to was filmmakers operating in the studio system while kind of maintaining their own personal touch or flair and in this when this coin was When this term was coined

Eli Price (21:31.034)
It was kind of the way they talked about it was that these filmmakers were sort of smugglers. They were kind of smuggling their own personal touches, their own flair. What they were really kind of doing was smuggling art house cinema into the studio system, into these bigger budgets. And really, I think Nolan fits into that category. I think Nolan, in many ways, is smuggling

that kind of art house feel with a very personal, strange idea kind of touch into the studio system. His movies all have something to do with one of his personal obsessions, and they all always have this strange, puzzly idea with them.

Eli Price (22:30.25)
movie and he, I really do. I think, I think Nolan is kind of like this, uh, original definition or use of Alture as sort of a smuggler of a smaller kind of filmmaker touch to a blockbuster or studio film. Um, and that's why I think Nolan really is a blockbuster Alture if there ever was one. Um,

And you know, I really love that about him. I love that he is, he is doing this in a studio system because it gives him a lot of power. It helps him to fight for those smaller filmmakers too in certain ways and clear room for them to be able to make the films they wanna make within this, the studio system with bigger budgets than they would normally be able to get. But yeah, the second section I have,

and labeled Mr. Celluloid. And I am sitting here, you know, drinking my apple cider from my Christmas mug.

There's a little sip for you right on mic. Um, and, uh, I'm just, uh, loving the, the tangibility of that warm apple cider, uh, in sitting here in my kind of shacket as a shirt jacket, keeping warm on a cold night and, uh, I can't help but think about how Christopher Nolan loves that tangibility of the film. He loves the feel.

of that medium working with him. And he, you know, no one really is. He's known for his advocate advocacy for shooting on cell celluloid film. All of his movies are shot on film. He does not do digital. And this really is not just for tradition's sake. He's not just a guy that's like, you know, digital.

Eli Price (24:41.61)
You know, he has a great respect for people, for filmmakers that shoot digital. He doesn't have a disdain for it per se. He, you know, he's, he's just, you know, he's reasonable. He's like, yeah, people are going to shoot on digital. Great. But he personally believes in shooting on cellular light. He believes in the look and the feel and all of that. And, um, you know, he, he does it not just.

Like I said, for tradition's sake, but for the sake of the art, for the sake of his filmmaking, for what it does for him as a creative mind, as an artist. And one of the things is that he believes in the resistance of the medium and how it affects your choices within your art form. I'm going to read from the Nolan Variations. It's a longer quote. So usually I just...

put quotes, type quotes into my notes, but this is a longer one that I feel like typing out. So I'm gonna read this for you. It comes from the Nolan Variations by Tom Schoen. I've referenced this. This has been one of my major sources for this podcast series on Nolan. But yeah, I'm gonna read this quote from kind of the final chapter. This is a quote from Nolan. He says, one of the things that my public conversations with Tassadedean

has brought out in all these issues from the art world, like medium, is all these issues from the art world, like medium specificity and medium resistance. If you take a block of clay and make a piece of a, if you.

Eli Price (26:26.942)
If you take a block of clay and make a piece of sculpture, the way the clay pushes back on your hand affects the way you make your art. It affects what it is going to become. That is absolutely applicable to the craft of cinema. If you're shooting silently, or in black and white, or with color, or with sound, the resistance of the medium affects your choices. It affects how you approach the actors. It affects how you block a scene.

How you break it up. How you move the camera. Whether you want to move the camera. The medium pushes back on me. It has resistance. There are difficulties to be overcome. These affect the rhythm of your day. You have to reload the camera, for example. You can only shoot 10 minutes at a time. With IMAX, I've actually had to shoot two and a half minutes at a time, which takes me back to my first films on my father's Super 8, where I had to change the cartridge every two and a half minutes.

I'm right back to where I started. And again, this is from the Nolan variations by Tom Shum. If you're watching on YouTube, you can see it right here on screen. I highly, highly recommend this book. Really, really great book. And yeah, it just shows this quote. The way you work in your art film form, the medium that you choose to use.

pushes back on you, it challenges you in certain ways. And I love that kind of like readiness for a challenge that Nolan has. And I just love his commitment to doing the hard work of making films with the most resistance, whether that means shooting on film, whether that means capturing as much as you can on camera and doing the least possible post-production work with CGI and whatnot.

as possible, whether that means being neck deep into every aspect of the film. You know, Christopher Nolan, you know, it's kind of been one thing I've learned is that he doesn't just direct the scenes right there, but he's kind of directing the production design team, the VFX team, the stunts, he's directing the cinematography, he's directing and the editing, he's directing with the composing with his composer.

Eli Price (28:49.458)
He is neck deep in every aspect of the movie. He's working, he's, if they're in the water, he's got waders on, he's in the water with them. He is committed to making films with the most resistance, to stepping into the challenge with his team. And I love this quote from Nolan. He said, directing is a job where you have to know a bit of everything, jack of all trades and master of none. It's like being a conductor, not a soloist.

And another thing this kind of underlines is the fact that while a visionary artist like Nolan is the driving force behind a movie, this art form, perhaps unlike really any other art form, is quintessentially a communal effort. And I just love that about filmmaking, that it takes so many people doing the work to make it happen, to make it to where you can sit in a theater

and watch a movie and watch it unfold on screen. It takes so many people. That's why I kind of like to sit through the credits, even if I'm not like, I'm obviously not sitting there reading every name, but just kind of out of a respect for all the people that worked on the film, I generally like to sit through the credits, but yeah, I just appreciate that about Nolan. He is Mr. Celluloid. The next thing I have is.

The title of this next section is Create From What Interests You. And I really think Nolan creates films from ideas and concepts that fascinate him. One thing that I loved as I read through the Nolan variations, Tom Schoen does tons of interviews with Nolan, you know, throughout this book and over a generally generally.

wide breadth of time he's doing these and it always feels like in every chapter no one has some like puzzle for him that you know is on his mind the kind of thread through it is this idea of how can you describe to someone the concept of left and right um that they kind of go back and forth on and it's just this idea this question this puzzle that no one's you know constantly

Eli Price (31:15.114)
those sorts of things really inform and motivate Nolan. Those just puzzles that he's turning around and trying to figure out and maybe even making for himself to challenge himself in his mind. And they fascinate him and they are interesting to him. And he creates out of that. You can see it in his movies. His movies carry this kind of puzzle.

interesting turning something over in your head kind of aspect. And, you know, I think because of that, his films create an intrigue from his audience. It stems from his fascination with symmetry, with mirroring and inversion and time and space, his fascination with these things come across through the screen, into the audience. And it makes the audience interested in those things too. And, you know, maybe if the film doesn't work for you, maybe not so much, but.

I think for a lot of people, obviously, it does. And so I really love that. And as he turns these ideas around in his minds and it comes through in his work, it makes the audience think about things. And this is something that I just really like about Nolan. He's not creating films just because he needs to work necessarily. He's not...

uh, just taking other people's ideas and making something from that. Um, he really is. Creating from things that fascinate and interest him. And I think that's really important as a creative of any kind, whether you're an artist or, um, you know, an engineer or a businessman or whatever you may be, um, creating from what interests you or fascinates you can be really

motivating for both you and the people that work for you or the people that partake in whatever you're creating. It's something that, you know, I think is just built into who we are as humans. That's what this podcast is for me. It's just filmmakers fascinate me and it's super interesting. I love digging into their films and how they made them and what...

Eli Price (33:36.202)
you know, influence them and those sorts of things. I just love it. And this podcast is, you know, the, the outpouring of that creating from what interests me. And so, you know, I challenge you to think about what fascinates and interests you. And, you know, whether you're getting paid for it or not, you know, create out of that. Um, and whatever way that looks like, you might have to be creative to come up with how you're going to create.

out of what fascinates you, but yeah, do the hard work to figure that out because it's worth it for both you and the people that enjoy it with you or that sort of thing. So yeah, create from what interests you or fascinates you. The next section I have is a little bit more thematic in Nolan, dealing with Nolan, and this section is called The Troubled Man.

Most of Nolan's protagonists are troubled men with obsessions. You have the young man in following, Leonard Shelby in Memento, Will Dormer in Insomnia, Bruce Wayne in the Dark Knight trilogy, Borden and Angier in The Prestige, Dom Cobb in Inception, Cooper in Interstellar, and of course Oppenheimer, which again I haven't seen, but I mean come on.

It's got to be a troubled man with an obsession, right? I think it's pretty obvious. And really, I think the only movies that maybe are an exception to this are perhaps The Men in Dunkirk, which, you know, they don't have a whole lot of background. I guess you could argue maybe the, the Killian Murphy, Shivering Soldier character is a troubled man, but you don't really know any background. The only.

The person you really get background on is the boat captain. The actor's name is just escaping me in this moment. So that shows you that I am not an expert on this. But yeah, you kind of get the background that one of his sons died of more. Maybe that's what is motivating him to cross the channel to go to Dunkirk. But really...

Eli Price (35:57.102)
I would say that Dunkirk is maybe an exception to this troubled man protagonist thread, but also Tenet. John David Washington is the protagonist, is the name of his character. He doesn't really have background. He's sort of just an empty shell of a tool, I guess, for...

Most of the movie, he kind of carries an emotion with him and he, you can see that he has a caring attitude, but he doesn't have a background and he doesn't have a motivating factor necessarily from that background. So maybe he's kind of a bit of an exception to this troubled man protagonist rule. But really like, I mean, that's two out of what, 11? So it's, you know.

There's a trend there, a thread throughout his filmography. And the irony of this to me is that Nolan seems to be a happily married man and seems to have a really pretty good family life. And you know, part of that is he works hard to make that happen. You know, he when he's not working, he is with his family. And that's that. No questions, no exceptions. Which I have.

great respect for. But I think often what's happening, and this is just kind of my opinion, I feel like I've maybe heard something like this. I can't remember if it was Nolan or someone just talking about Nolan. But I'll just say this is my opinion, is that Nolan, I think, is often dealing with these kind of in-your-mind personal worst-case scenarios, kind of exploring.

what his obsessive mind might do to deal with these traumatic events that happen to his protagonists. It feels like something that no one would think through is, man, what would I do? Where would my mind turn to? What would unravel in me if this were to happen to me sort of thing? Yeah, it's just, it's ironic, but I do think that's sort of maybe what's going on with this.

Eli Price (38:19.714)
troubled man protagonist thread. But also you can see the maturing, his maturing in these matters as his career progresses. He had to, you know, for instance, realize the sacrifice of his career with his children and wife before making Inception. You know, that was kind of, we talked about that in that episode. He kind of had an aha moment where he had been stuck in the script with Inception, where he was...

realized like, oh, this is the emotional thrust of the movie. You know, he wants to get back to his kids. He'd been making dark night movies for so long. He, he just wanted to be with his kids and went on a vacation with them and had this moment where he realized, and he had to mature to that moment. To finally make that movie that had been in his mind since he was, uh, you know, a high schooler, probably.

And even I think a movie like Tenet that, like I said, doesn't necessarily have a troubled man theme, but without, it doesn't have that typical protagonist that we're talking about, I guess. But it feels too like an exploration of the drive and sacrifice it takes to do what he does. Just like the drive and sacrifice it takes to do what the protagonist does in that movie.

Eli Price (39:48.214)
You can kind of see as he goes through like the mature, as he matures, he's dealing with new things and he's, or he's dealing with the same things in different ways with these protagonists, um, and their choices. Uh, so I think that's pretty cool. Um, and you know, we all, we all have to reckon with the ugly parts of life. Uh, and so I, you know, I, it's something we all have to do and no one included. And

I just think we're lucky that we've gotten so many interesting films from knowing doing that through his art. So you know, I'm appreciative of that. But that's the Trouble Man section. The next section title is a breathing time machine. I have there's a band called the Averett Brothers that I love. And maybe in post, I'll include a little clip from this song.

by them called Laundry Room. But I love this line from it. It says, break this tired old routine and this time don't make me leave. I am a breathing time machine. I'll take you all for a ride.

Eli Price (41:02.086)
Nolan is obsessed with time. It's obvious. It's the dominant motif of his entire body of work. I think it's there in all of his films, whether it's insomnia, which doesn't have, maybe is the least directly influenced by this time motif, it's still there. The passing of time when you are so tired that you can't sleep is strange and kind of like intangible at that point. But...

time in Noah movies and something that I've come to realize is it is like this You know, there's this idea that

in his movies of how time functions within humanity, for humanity. It's a very human experience. That's why I love that line, I am a breathing time machine from that Averbrothers song. Because time is a human concept. It's not something that really anything else in the universe or our earth really necessarily thinks or ponders upon.

reckons with. Everything else just kind of like moves with the gears of the clock of the universe and time. Everything else just operates within it. But us as humans, we ponder on it. We experience it and we feel it in a unique way. And so, you know, I am a breathing time machine, so are you, and so is no one.

And really, I think time isn't just this thing he's interested in that makes puzzles in his work. It's so much more than that. So I have a few ways that I think time function is work. One, it functions as an interesting intellectual puzzle to manipulate. Whether it's inception and the different

Eli Price (43:15.63)
time streams going between the dreams that kind of create this puzzle, whether it's in Memento, you know, moving backwards through the life of the Guy Pearce's character there, whether it is in Interstellar and the idea of, you know, your daughter back on Earth.

aging at a greater speed than you who are moving through space at a great speed. The idea that you might one day be the same age at the same time is interesting and strange and weird and creates these intellectual puzzles that are just interesting. They're fun. Another thing, it functions as a meta exploration of film as a medium. How time passes in a movie, you know,

It's something that I thought was interesting in the Nolan variations. There's a chapter, I can't remember which one, where the Nolan raises the question to Tom Shone of, you know, how do you know how much time passes in a movie? Have you ever thought about that? We, we kind of experience a movie, but if you really think about it, it's like, after you watch a movie and you try to think about how much time passed from start to end of that movie.

Sometimes it's a little bit more evasive of, or I could say, I guess it's not a very concrete, easy thing to figure out, as you would think, because time in film is very malleable, I guess you could say. The camera manipulates and plays with time.

And it comes across on screen where when you finish a movie, you know, maybe try to do this next time you watch a movie, watch a movie and then don't think about it. And then maybe afterwards have a, Oh yeah, I'm supposed to think about how much time passed in that movie. And then, uh, yeah, it's, it's really hard. Actually. It's, uh, I've thought about it a couple of times and I'm like, yeah, no idea. Was it a week? Was it a month? Was it a few days?

Eli Price (45:29.45)
Was it like half a year or a few years? It's really hard sometimes to have a grasp on how much time passes in a movie. Even if there are clues in there that give a concrete answer, when you watch it, you're not really thinking in that way. And so it's hard to really know. It's an interesting thought experiment, but it plays with no one, I think, is dealing with time in a way that is.

meta in a way in the sense that he's interested in film and how it manipulates and plays with time and that kind of comes across in his films themselves, which is what makes a meta. Another thing, it functions as a thematic driving force for how we deal with our guilt and our mistakes. You know, something that is a thread through a lot of his movies is not being able to go back and fix.

Uh, what you've done, you know, it starts with following really, you know, the beginning of the movie is the end essentially. And you, you realize he can't, when, when everything comes back together, he can't go back and change anything. Uh, memento is a huge example of this, you know, this idea of not being able to change the pastor or, you know, avenge it, uh, think about.

interstellar and it's playing with time, you know, Cooper.

Cooper is reaching back in a time, and maybe this is where Nolan is the most reckoning with that idea. There's a sense in which Cooper is reaching back through time, but he still can't change his mistake. It's one of the most emotionally affecting parts of the movie. He's screaming at himself on the other side of that bookcase from the Tesseract,

Eli Price (47:31.742)
He knocks the books off that say stay and he can't go back and change that. It is what it is. Uh, and, or as a Robert Pattinson's character in, and Tenet would say, what's happened happened. And, uh, you know, I think Tenet is a culmination of that in a way, um, of that idea that there, at least that line from Tenet is a culmination of that idea that we can't go back and change. And I think.

That's one reason that no one is interested in playing with time in his movies because of that idea of not being able to go back and change our past. Not being able to go back and right our wrongs, I guess, is a way to think about it.

But yeah, the last one I have is that it functions as a unifier. And I kind of hinted at this a minute ago. All humans feel the passage of time. And it is a uniquely human dilemma. And so as you're watching this movie with other people and you're all reckoning with it, it's this uniquely human thing that we all deal with in one way or another. And yeah, we all reckon with it. It unifies this.

playing with time, this motif of time is unifying in that way because it's a human problem. It's a human dilemma. It's something we all have to deal with and think about. Because if you don't think about it, then time passes and then it's gone. It doesn't come back. You have to think about how you're going to spend your time. Because usually when we don't think about it, when we aren't intentional with it, we usually regret it.

So yeah, it's a unifier in that way, this theme of time. A breathing time machine, that's what we all are. Thank you Aver brothers. Go check out that song if you've never listened to Aver Brothers, kind of a folk band. But yeah, the next section I have is a trajectory of despair versus hope. And this is an idea I kind of, just kind of sourcing myself here. This comes from Elijah Davidson's little booklet.

Eli Price (49:49.814)
Transcending Time, where he kind of writes a short devotion style thought on Nolan's film by film. Elijah was on for the inception episode, if you didn't listen to that great episode. I highly recommend going back and listening to that and checking out Elijah's book, Transcending Time, Christopher Nolan on Christopher Nolan. It's

If you go on his website, which if you go to the inception episode, there's links to it. But yeah, he has where you can sign up for his emails and get the book for free. So that's actually what I did. I got signed up, downloaded the book, read it in my Kindle app. But yeah, it's a great little book. But I got this idea from him. So just sourcing myself. Not necessarily an original idea.

Uh, but I'll expound on it and think about it here, but he has this sort of trajectory of despair to hope, uh, through his film.

Eli Price (51:00.182)
Yeah, he has this trajectory of despair to hope through his filmography. Nolan's films early in his career, when you juxtapose those with his most recent movies, you can kind of see this trajectory. His early films have protagonists who are kind of caught up in this cycle of despair and identity crises. You think about following and memento and insomnia. They have these obsessions and these kind of like.

their own little crisis of identity, not knowing exactly who they are or where they stand in the world. And it's this cycle of despair that it causes for them. They can't really break out of it. But then you move on to his, the middle section of his films and you can see he begins to wrestle with breaking out of that mold, especially morally, what you do morally with your moral decisions. And

Um, you know, with following memento insomnia, uh, there's kind of the, the inklings, I guess you could say of that, that dealing with those moral decisions, but really it's, those are more about being stuck in the cycle of not being able to know what the, what moral decision is right in his middle section. You know, thinking of, um, you know, dealing with the mired mixed up

ethics of our kind of messed up reality that we live in, and what moral decisions we can make within that. I think the Dark Knight trilogy really wrestles with that as a whole. And then, you know, when that kind of is more grounded in reality, dealing with our messed up world. And then I think the prestige and inception are really dealing with more existential questions of purpose.

and what reality even is and where it lies and how we can operate in it morally and ethically and you know where the lines are I guess you could say but yeah so you can kind of see he's starting to break out of that cycle of despair and starting to try to figure out how to make those moral decisions.

Eli Price (53:26.894)
in reality or existentially. And then in his later films, you think about Interstellar and Dunkirk and Tenet, he's really kind of accepting our messed up reality, whether it's a grounded reality or the existential reality and now trying to deal with how to choose to do what is right in the midst of that messed up reality.

Um, and, and oftentimes against all odds, um, really in all three of those movies against all odds, uh, so, um, you can kind of see this, this trajectory of cycle of despair, okay, breaking out of that. Okay. Everything's kind of messed up, whether it's this grounded reality or this existential, you know, cycle that I'm stuck in, how can I start making steps progression forward?

uh, to make decisions, uh, to do what's right within the midst of that. Um, and then finally later in his career, really like, okay, let's experiment with those decisions. What happens if I'm step forward and do what's right, what I think is right. Like an interstellar. Um, what happens when the community itself steps forward into, into danger and does what's right, like in Dunkirk. Um, you know, tenants.

is sort of this, tenet is almost this idea that in a way we are destined to kind of try to do what's right. And there's, um, whether we're going forward or backward through time, you know, we, we can't necessarily change the reality, but we still have to operate within it and make the decision to do what we're supposed to do within that reality. Um, which is.

you know, a really interesting way to think about Tenet, um, and makes it a much more interesting movie than you might think after first watching it for the first time. But, but yeah, it, it just underlines this trajectory, how our maturity through life affects what we create too. Uh, and you know, you can see that for Nolan here is, and I guess like my takeaway from that is just that I hope as I mature, I, I too will move

Eli Price (55:51.074)
further and further away from cynicism and more and more toward a posture of hope and care. It seems like Nolan kind of has done through the trajectory of his films. Now, the disclaimer is I haven't seen Oppenheimer and I haven't really listened to or read anything about Oppenheimer that goes too deep into it because I try to stay fresh for movies. So maybe that changes.

Maybe the his career or the trajectory kind of takes a term with Oppenheimer. I don't know. We'll maybe tackle that when we eventually get to that. But yeah, I think that's seen here. And that's my hope for me and for all of us that we would as we mature, move further instead of moving more and more into cynicism, move further from it and more toward a posture of hope.

And yeah, that's the trajectory section. The next section I have titled Full Circle Puzzles. Nolan movies have a way of coming back full circle in the end, and I just love that it I guess this section is just about how fun Christopher Nolan movies can be. The the puzzles and the thought experiments.

some point if you take off your like snooty attitude or kind of like film critic glasses and just enjoy something for what it is it's fun it's inception is fun like whether you think it's a stupid concept or not just like turn that part of your brain off and just put yourself in the world and enjoy it

It's really fun. It's fun to think about what happens in our dreams. It's fun to think about what might happen if you go into a black hole. It's, you know, it's fun to think about inverting yourself and going backwards through time. It's fun to put yourself in the puzzle of a mind that can only remember the last 10 minutes and then you reset.

Eli Price (58:17.938)
All these little puzzles that Nolan makes in his movies are just, they're fun. They're fun to think through. Um, and really like, I think at the end of the day, they create this never ending journey with his movies. They make his movies for one very, very watchable and very fun to talk about. And I think it has this kind of spiral or corkscrew effect where when his movies end.

you're somewhere on this, instead of it just being this linear, like you've watched it from start to finish and now it's done, it's more of this corkscrew effect, and this is something that Tom Schoen kind of talks about in the Nolan variations, and I loved this kind of way of thinking about it. So when the movie ends, there's always something further down the spiral of the corkscrew or something further up that you're left kind of wondering or puzzling about. So...

Uh, that might be in the case of memento, you know, thinking further up the spiral. Well, what happened before? What happened? What's going to happen after? Uh, it's kind of up in the air. It's kind of interesting to think about. Um, it's kind of the same for, you know, maybe interstellar kind of wraps things up nicely, but like tenant.

Um, it's interesting to think, okay, well, what is the protagonist going to do now? Like what's his, how does he meet Neil? That's fun to think about. What was Neil doing, you know, before you meet him for the first time in the movie? What was he up to? Is, you know, it was fun. It, he just creates these, these puzzles and the way he makes his movies in that way, kind of make them fun to think about afterwards.

And it's, this is a quote from Nolan. He says, I think if there's one thing that is significant in terms of the commercial success of films I make, it's that invariably the films have found a way to make ambiguity a positive feeling. And I just, I love that. And I think what he's saying is sometimes, or maybe even a lot of times, ambiguity at the end of a movie is kind of a negative feeling. Like you're left thinking like.

Eli Price (01:00:41.322)
really like that's how you're going to end it or you're left thinking like, well, what happens that, you know, I hate this because I don't know. Nothing was resolved that sort of thing, but he's found a way in his films, you know, inception is probably the prime example of the little, the way he, they cut just, you know, after, uh, the top has wobbled a little bit. It's like cut out the, just this such a good moment. Um, it.

the ambiguity there creates a positive feeling of excitement. Instead of making you hate the movie for being ambiguous, somehow the way he constructs his movies make the ambiguity give you a positive feeling of excitement or intrigue, that sort of thing. So I just love that. For one thing, you're left with the memory of what you watched.

just when the resonance of it is starting to kind of bloom in your mind, you know, you think about the ending of Memento and how the just as like you're realizing everything that has happened and, you know, what that means for this character, what he's really been doing to himself, just as the resonance of that is starting to bloom in your mind, the movie ends and then you're left

Whoa, what? You know, it's really a cool thing. But then also it suggests something ongoing. Like we said, something further up or further down the spiral of the corkscrew that you can explore or talk about or, you know, theorize. And it just it's a really fun, just fun part of Nolan movies. And it's a reason why they work as blockbuster movies, because at the end of the day, like

even with a lot of the heavy themes he deals with, they are, there's aspects of the movie, movies that he makes that are just fun. They're just fun to think about, they're fun to explore, and I love that. And his movies all have kind of a culmination. He said, and this is a quote from Nolan, he says, you have to focus the audience's attention at the end of the film the same way you were granted it at the beginning.

Eli Price (01:03:06.786)
And so you think about the way Inception ends and the way Memento ends, the way, uh, you know, even a movie like Insomnia ends, the way following even ends his first film, they, it brings, you know, at the beginning of the movie, you granted attention, you, you're saying, I'm going to sit down and watch this movie. And so it has to grab you. It takes you on a journey. And that in the end of the movie, the same.

attention that you granted it at the beginning, he wants to focus it back down at the end. You know, the prestige, you know, it focuses your attention back, back into what's going on. And I love that his movies have a culmination and even sometimes they have this reverberation of a crescendo, you know, the prestige has that, you know, you see the man in the tank at the beginning and then

That's kind of where the movie ends. It's this reverberation happens through the movie. Nolan kind of talks about how most people don't notice, but they use the same sound for the leaflets at the beginning of Dunkirk that they use for the newspaper ruffling at the very end of Dunkirk. And it's this audio, I guess, reverberation.

they're at the end of the movie taking you back to the beginning of what they've been through and where they are now. So I just really think that's cool. This is another quote from Nolan. He says, I'm fascinated by how films change over time. They can come into their own with the passage of time because all the other films around them at the time reveal their own artifices. And this is just...

him talking about how you can sit with films and how films over time they can create this, you know, he talks about the reverberations of things in his films. Well, sometimes films can create reverberations in culture, whether it's the ideas they present or just how they affect pop culture, that sort of thing. And I think his prime example that he's talking about with this quote is 2001, and he points out that

Eli Price (01:05:28.354)
2001 of space out of the cool 2001 a space Odyssey really is more relevant now than it's ever been if you know go back and watch 2001 and The way it deals with AI is very relevant. They are sitting there Eating by themselves watching news on a iPad essentially it's just very eerily relevant to kind of

where we are culturally now. And that movie was made in the 60s. I mean, really, it's wild. But movies can have that sort of reverberation, and they can have that effect. And the question I have at the end of this section is just, I kind of wonder if any of Nolan's films will have this sort of reverberation.

through history, through film history, decades from now, what will we think of some of his films? So, but you know, I'm kind of excited to be, you know, 30 years older, hopefully, and think about back on Christopher Nolan movies, you know, what they meant, are they still important? You know, it's just interesting to think about. That's that section. And you were coming up on the last section here.

The future of cinema.

And the question that goes along with this section is will cinema die? It's, it's a question that, uh, Nolan, um, and Tom Shone kind of posit, um, in the Nolan variations towards the end of the book. Um, and the, the cinema, what's interesting is a lot of the cinemas that Nolan frequented when he was, um, a kid, uh, a young man.

Eli Price (01:07:28.602)
are gone, they're closed or something else now. The Odeon West End theater where he first saw 2001 A Space Odyssey with his dad is gone. And in fact, the last film that was screened there was Interstellar in 70 millimeter back in 2014, I guess. And the poster stayed on the marquee for Interstellar months after it closed, which is just kind of like.

I guess a strange thing really because it was important to Nolan and it ended with showing his movie. Yeah, the Eden Theater in Northbrook, Illinois, where he first saw Raiders of the Lost Ark with his mom is no longer open. Even the Scala Cinema in King's Cross in London, where he saw...

movies like Blue Velvet, Full Metal Jacket, Man Hunter that were very influential in pushing him to wanting to be a filmmaker. That's now like a club, a nightclub and a music venue no longer open. All these cinemas are closing that no one frequented as a kid or turning into music venues. And when you pause...

bring up the question, will cinema die? I think that question even was pushed even further during the pandemic. The question of will, is this industry going to last? And we're a little bit removed from the pandemic now, thank God, but here we are.

couple years away from that crazy 2020 and it feels like there's a little bit of life. And what's funny is like no one had a part in that. I think Oppenheimer and Barby, Barbenheimer was really a big thrust in theater going. Just the huge numbers these movies are putting up and still are.

Eli Price (01:09:51.666)
in some ways too. It's just, it's really interesting and really incredible. And I think it's cool that Nolan is having a part in that. But Nolan believes that cinema really is a unique subjective point of view that is then shared with others. And, you know, he really believes in that. And, you know, I think I do too.

I watch a lot of movies at home, on my TV, on my phone, whether at work or in bed or that sort of thing. It's just kind of a reality that we live in. I watch a lot of movies that way. And no one, I think Tom Shone asked no one the question if he had a problem with people watching, say, Dunkirk on their phone. And no one said, no, I don't.

because it's put into these big theaters as its primary form. You carry the understanding of what that cinematic experience would be." So really, he would have a problem if his movies were just going straight to streaming services immediately. He wants that context of the big screen, the theater, the cinematic experience with a movie. He wants that to be the primary initial thrust of his films.

And you know, I really respect that. I do as someone who can't just go see movies nonstop in theaters really appreciate when new releases come to streaming pretty soon. But I also have a great respect for those filmmakers like Nolan that really want that main thrust to be the cinematic experience. Because it is. It is a unique experience.

You know and really like you do get a larger-than-life experience when you go to a theater and watch a movie with a crowd of people And Nolan himself. He loved seeing films with other people's he kind of shared this anecdote and the known variations about how He saw silence of the lambs initially I guess Whatever screening he went to there was only a few people there. He was by himself and

Eli Price (01:12:15.698)
I want to say he's, he said like, he didn't really go for it. He thought it was a good movie, but just was like, uh, you know, whatever. It was, it was, it was good. Um, but then he went again, he went with his wife in it. He saw it with a packed theater and he said he was thoroughly creeped out. And with that experience, it like worked. Uh, so well that time around. And he credits that to seeing it with a crowd.

at a theater, a crowded theater with his wife too. And this is what he says, this is a quote from Nolan. He says, the thing that makes films completely unique is the combination of subjectivity, the visceral experience, with the shared experience and empathy with the rest of the audience. It's a borderline mystical experience. And I think that's really true. If you think about reading a novel,

That's a very subjective experience. You're you're kind of on your own even thinking about like going to see a stage play You are all sharing the experience of watching the stage play but even in that You're where you sit you have a unique view of the stage from everyone else which can affect your viewing experience and None of this is so with films

You are having a subjective experience with a watching a film in a theater, but also it's shared at the same time. It's this combination of those. This is another quote from Nolan. He says, movies have this very, very unique mixture of subjective and immersive, but it's also shared. It doesn't happen with any other medium, which is why it's fabulous and forever.

Eli Price (01:14:12.362)
So what does Nolan think? He does not think cinema's gonna die. And I don't either. So it's really in short, the answer to this question is no. Cinema's not gonna die. And I think it's because the art form of film has become such a big part of our culture that man, I just don't think that theaters are going away. And I'm so excited to come to that conclusion with Nolan.

Who is he didn't save the hitters with tenant maybe but him and Greg Gerwig saved theaters maybe with Barbenheimer You know, you know Tom Cruise with Top Gun Maverick. He did a good job kickstarting that I suppose. But the Barbenheimer was a real thrust there. But yeah, let's fight with Nolan.

for the importance and life of the cinema in this art film form that we get to share uh together as an audience. It's a great experience to go to a theater and watch a movie with a crowd of people. Really great. You know so as we close I just want to say directors like Nolan are vital for the life of cinema and vital for the film industry in general.

Eli Price (01:15:40.094)
immense respect for Christopher Nolan and his work, both in his filmmaking and then just in what he's done for the film industry too. Just a great respect that's grown and grown through this series, hopefully it has, with YouTube. But yeah, his work just pumps life into the art form. He pushes against the studio system and their expectations and what they look for.

what they're willing to give money to, but he also pushes against the audience expectations, um, in important and healthy ways. Um, and you know, he's, he's challenging on all fronts and I just love that about him. I'm glad he is continuing to make films and I hope he does so for a long time so that we can keep making podcast episodes about his movies. Uh, but with that, I think I will conclude, um,

this episode. I, like I said, I will be doing a podcast next week talking about the wonderful story of Henry Sugar and the other three shorts that came out with that on Netflix. They are Poison, The Rat Catcher, and give me a second, The Swan. I almost forgot that one, but I found it. Last second.

So I'm gonna be reviewing those four short films on that Wes Anderson put out. I loved them. Looking forward to kind of watching them again, taking some notes if I can find time within the very fast dialogue of those to take any notes. But yeah, looking forward to that. But this is the conclusion of the Nolan series for now. So.

It's been a great time. Thank you for going on this journey with me. And yeah, I really look forward to our next series. I guess I will go ahead and, well, I'll do this first. I already said I'm doing the Anderson Shorts episode next week. The week after that?

Eli Price (01:18:01.738)
we'll actually be having a Christmas movie draft episode, a special episode that's only a movie draft. I know you're missing the movie draft this week and I won't have one next week either. So we really need our movie draft fixed, right? So we're doing a Christmas movie draft. I'm actually having a few people on for that. There'll be three or four of us total doing the draft. So just a mega draft episode.

with Christmas movies. I'm excited about that. So that'll be coming out two weeks from now. I might have some other kind of supplementary episodes come out later in December, some smaller stuff. Maybe reflecting on the movie year, maybe another episode, a little bonus episode with my son with some maybe Christmas movies he likes that we've watched, something like that.

But I'm not sure if I'm going to... I know I will be taking a break at some point later in December. And that might be an extended break while I prepare for the next series. I'm going to be trying to spend time with the family, doing some traveling during the holidays, that sort of thing. So I won't have a ton of time to pour into this like I normally do. So hopefully get...

started on the next series, I am coming down on, and this is really, I haven't really solidly decided, but I am deciding here live as I'm recording, I'm going to be doing an early Spielberg series next. So with directors like Steven Spielberg, who have such a huge filmography.

I've decided if I'm going to tackle those filmmakers, I'll try to find a way to break them up So that it feels more digestible and manageable So I'm gonna be doing the first third of his career, which would be the first two decades the 70s and 80s So I want to say I'm just trying to remember off the top of my head. So this isn't gonna be completely accurate I want to say that comes out to about 11 or 12 films, which is kind of

Eli Price (01:20:26.786)
how these past two series with Wes and Nolan have worked out to be. So, uh, yeah, it'll start with, uh, the sugar land express or dual. I can't remember. I think dual was actually a TV made for TV movie. Uh, but when we might talk about, um, the stuff that came out before the sugar land express, kind of on the overview episode, uh, but yeah, I'm, I'm excited and I'm excited to dig into early Spielberg.

Um, as we get more into that series on the early Spielberg, the first third of his career, we might decide if we want to keep going with Spielberg or, um, go ahead and move on to another, uh, director. And then obviously eventually we'll come back around to maybe mid career Spielberg and, um, you know, modern late career Spielberg, but yeah, early career Spielberg seventies and eighties movies, um, I'm excited.

There's this will be the first time I'm doing Some movies that I've never seen before so that'll be interesting it'll be some Uncharted territory for me and also be covering movies. I haven't seen in a long time, too So I'll be excited to revisit those movies But yeah early career Spielberg will be the next series that'll be starting sometime in January

maybe even February, we might have an extended break there over Christmas and January. So just be on the lookout. You can follow the podcast on. I'm active on Instagram and Twitter and Facebook. If you go to the established, if you go to establishing shot pod.com, you can find links to all the socials there. That's the easiest place to kind of find everything.

But yeah, keep an eye out follow me So I'll be updating on when I'll be starting the next series what episodes will be coming up and that sort of thing So be on the lookout for that. But yeah, that is all I have I'm excited. I hope you're excited I've loved doing this Nolan series. I hope you have to But that is all I have for you for this week. I have been Eli price and you

Eli Price (01:22:54.23)
have been listening to the establishing shot. I'll see you next time.