Jaws (w/ Daniel Blackaby)

Eli Price (00:01.306)
Hello and welcome to the establishing shot a podcast where we do directors and wow. Okay. I'm going to start over.

Eli Price (00:12.41)
Hello and welcome to The Establishing Shot, a podcast where we do deep dives into directors and their filmographies. I am your host Eli Price and we are here on episode 38 of the podcast. And yeah, we're pretty early on in our Steven Spielberg, early Steven Spielberg series covering his movies of the 70s and 80s. And we're covering a big one today, Jaws.

I would take the low -hanging fruit and say we're going to need a bigger podcast, but I've actually heard it done on other podcasts, so I'm not going to do that today. But I have a new guest joining me today. Daniel Blackaby is here with us. He runs a, I guess you would call it sort of a pop culture and Christianity ministry.

called The Collision, among other things, but I'm excited to have Daniel on to talk about what I gather is his favorite, if not one of his favorite movies. Is that right, Daniel?

Daniel Blackaby (01:26.151)
Oh yeah, this is my jam. This has been my favorite one for a while.

Eli Price (01:30.476)
Okay, great. Well, yeah, I'm excited to have you on. Daniel, why don't you tell people a little bit about who you are and what you do?

Daniel Blackaby (01:43.015)
Yeah, for sure. So Daniel Blackaby, and like you said, kind of the main thing I do is run The Collision, which as you said, Eli, is sort of a kind of a pop culture entertainment ministry where we just look at everything going on in culture, whether that's, you know, digging deep into movies or just trends or news or whatever it is and just discuss them. I kind of discuss it as a movie, discuss it as someone of faith and...

kind of how that relates to the film and just trying to be kind of engaged with what's happening. I love pop culture. I love books and movies and music. So it's just sort of been, it's been a fun thing just to, we talk a lot about cultural conversations. So just kind of sparking conversations about these things that are happening. And so that's, yeah, that's been real good.

Eli Price (02:29.784)
Mm -hmm.

Eli Price (02:35.514)
Yeah. Yeah. And I've, I've tuned in for, for, uh, for some of the episodes or shows y 'all have done. I don't know if y 'all necessarily call them episodes, but, uh, but yeah, and it's always a good discussion. And, um, even if, even if, you know, you're not yourself a Christian, uh, the, the conversations are engaging and, um, and, and interesting, you know, I would say even regardless as if you are a Christian, but, um,

but definitely from a Christian perspective. So that's, it's, I guess, more unique in the space than the vast amount of media out there covering pop culture and film. But yeah, so, and you, with your brother and some without your brother do some writing too? Did you wanna?

plug anything as far as that goes.

Daniel Blackaby (03:33.671)
Yeah, well, I'll always plug, I can plug some stuff. So yeah, I've done on my own, I've done some fiction, some novels, kind of young adults, fantasy type stuff. I've always been a literary guy as an English major in college. So I do some of that. And then my brother and I have an older brother and we do various writing projects, mostly from a Christian kind of religious perspective.

But with a lot of angles of storytelling and looking at life, the big questions of life, but through the lens of like Joseph Campbell's hero's journey, you're just looking at some of these faith questions, but through the arts and through beauty and some of those, the stuff that I think both of us are super passionate about. So we have several things. I'm sure maybe you'll drop a link or something to Amazon if you guys want to check out the different books.

Eli Price (04:25.466)
Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (04:33.069)
So yeah, excited to do a lot of that too.

Eli Price (04:36.058)
Yeah, for sure. I'll definitely link to a page that maybe there's a page where it has like kind of all of your work. And one, I can put that in the show notes for people to just click on. It's easier than just saying like, go to this link. Like, no, go in the notes and click on it. It's easier. But yeah, that's really awesome. I saw...

Daniel Blackaby (04:52.229)
Yeah.

Eli Price (05:04.41)
A recent book y 'all had, I need to get it and check it out. It had, it drew me in because there were like dragons or something on the cover. What was the name of that one?

Daniel Blackaby (05:13.083)
Yeah, so that's our most recent one. It's called God, Heroes, and Everyday Dragons. And it's sort of looking at just a lot of questions of faith, but just kind of development and sort of life. But through the lens of kind of the hero's journey in Campbell and kind of how the stories around us reflect kind of who we are as people. And...

Eli Price (05:21.624)
Mm -hmm.

Eli Price (05:32.794)
Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (05:38.117)
the way we're wired and the reason we're drawn to these stories again and again and again is because I think like Campbell would say, they contain spiritual truths and kind of human truths. So kind of look at that was a fun one for us just to nerd out and kind of look at different cultural examples and books and kind of like what can this help us understand about who we are as people, who we are as people of faith and kind of walk through some of those questions. So yeah, that one came out, I think it was.

Eli Price (05:42.874)
Mm -hmm.

Daniel Blackaby (06:07.463)
last October, so that's our most recent project.

Eli Price (06:10.682)
Yeah. Yeah. I've, I've seen it and, uh, it's, it's on my radar. I need to go ahead and add it to, uh, to the wish list on, on Amazon so that I don't forget about it. Um, but yeah, I'll definitely link to those. Uh, but yeah, why don't you, uh, tell us about, um, as you, as you sit from your jaws mug, why don't you tell us about, uh,

Daniel Blackaby (06:20.583)
Hehehe

Eli Price (06:38.33)
Yeah, just your introduction to Spielberg. Do you remember the first Spielberg you ever saw?

Daniel Blackaby (06:44.135)
I'm trying to think, it might not, yeah, it might not be accurate. I think it was Jurassic Park, though, like the first one, the least that I have a memory of. And I don't know how old I was. I know I was pretty young, young enough where it was scary. You're kind of terrified. But I remember it because we, it was like a, I think my uncle or someone had like taped it on like a VHS, like off the TV.

Eli Price (06:45.402)
It's a hard question sometimes. Yeah.

Eli Price (06:53.786)
Mm -hmm.

Eli Price (07:02.402)
Yeah.

Eli Price (07:11.384)
Mm -hmm.

Daniel Blackaby (07:13.307)
You know, so I think even like the first, like the opening of that when they're trying to rail in the raptor and the, like, he hadn't recorded that part. So it was like years later when I see like the actual, I'm like, wait, there's like more to this movie than, you know, than I thought. But I remember watching that, I think with him and cousins, like in his basement and like, you know, just thinking it was, you know, so cool. I know that. And then probably ET was another one that I, I have like early memories because I used to be terrified of like the...

Eli Price (07:37.018)
Mm -hmm.

Daniel Blackaby (07:43.015)
the guys in the suits that come, the contamination kind of guys that I don't know why that visual to me was this horrible. And they're coming into the house to get the kid. I was just horrified of that. I it was the scariest thing ever. But those are probably the two earliest that I have memories of watching.

Eli Price (07:47.16)
Yeah.

Eli Price (07:54.49)
Yeah.

Eli Price (07:58.746)
Yeah.

Eli Price (08:05.818)
Yeah, that's cool. It's funny because I'm pretty sure when I did the, my overview episode, I'm pretty sure I talked about those two as being my like earliest memories, kind of a similar thing. They're kind of fuzzy. I'm not sure what came first, but yeah, ET and Jurassic park definitely were, yeah. So I was born in 91, so I wouldn't have seen Jurassic park like in.

Daniel Blackaby (08:24.583)
Were you pretty young when you...

Eli Price (08:34.394)
you know, theaters or it would have been later on, but it might've even been Jurassic Park. Like the second one that I saw, uh, I was pretty young, uh, cause I remember my grandma either showed it to me at home or like took me to see it. And, uh, my parents were like upset with her cause I was too, they thought I was too young, but then like, I loved it and like, I loved dinosaurs. So it's like, Oh, it worked out, you know? Um, but yeah.

It's funny, do you remember the first time you saw Jaws?

Daniel Blackaby (09:08.743)
I don't. I sort of vaguely have memories, but not enough to even remember who. I'm guessing my dad. We weren't necessarily, we didn't watch a ton of movies growing up. We weren't anti -movie. My parents, we watched movies and stuff, but neither of my parents watch movies really now. They just weren't movie junkies or anything. So we would watch them from time to time. But I...

Eli Price (09:13.56)
Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (09:39.271)
So I'm guessing it would have been him, but he wasn't necessarily the kind of guy that just wanted to introduce me to all these classics. He showed me Star Wars and some of the biggies and stuff. But I sort of remember seeing it. I don't even know if it was the first time. But yeah, I don't really have a memory of even what my thoughts were the first time. I'm sure I didn't appreciate it like I do now.

Eli Price (09:50.776)
Yeah.

Eli Price (10:07.354)
Right.

Daniel Blackaby (10:07.623)
Well, it's a scary movie with sharks, like, no, but yes, I don't really, I don't really know what the first time do you remember your first?

Eli Price (10:15.45)
Yeah. Yeah. I actually watched it. Um, that I was, it was only a few years ago. I'm pretty sure I watched it in the middle of COVID for the first time. Uh, yeah. So it was, um, it's just one of those things where there's, there's just so many, you know, films, so many films. And even like when you get into film, it's like, uh, still haven't seen this and this and this and this. There's just.

Daniel Blackaby (10:26.183)
Oh, no way.

Eli Price (10:44.794)
too many to catch up with. And, and yeah, Jaws was one of those where I think, I think it was like, I think 2020 would have been like the 45th anniversary of it. And there were some like people like posting like, Oh, 45th anniversary of Jaws. And I was like, Oh, I'm going to watch Jaws. I've never watched it before. And, you know, we're all stuck at home. So I guess perfect time to watch.

When you're far from the beach and stuck at home is the perfect time to watch it for the first time. But yeah, that was the first time I ever watched it. Um, so it's, uh, it's not a movie that like, I have a long history with, which I know a lot of people do. Um, but I also was like, really love this movie. So.

Eli Price (11:38.778)
But yeah, so would you say this is your favorite movie? Or do you just say one of my favorites?

Daniel Blackaby (11:52.103)
I would probably say it's my favorite, but with the like asterisk caveat that I almost consider like the original Star Wars trilogy and like the Lord of the Rings trilogy is like, and even like the Harry Potter movies is like a separate category of, you know, like those are sort of big franchise. Cause we watch like me and my wife, at least probably twice a year, we watch through the Lord of the Rings movies and then the Harry Potter movies.

Eli Price (11:54.232)
Yeah.

Eli Price (12:02.714)
Hmm.

Eli Price (12:09.434)
Sure.

Eli Price (12:18.138)
Hmm.

Daniel Blackaby (12:20.295)
And then me and my kids will watch Star Wars, like the original ones. And the original Star Wars were the first non -cartoon movies that I ever saw. That was the day my dad's like, boys will become men, and we will sit down, and you will not watch cartoons. You're going to see the original Star Wars movies. So I don't know if anything will ever top that. There's such a nostalgia to, I remember vividly watching the Star Wars movies, and where we were, and what we did. And.

Eli Price (12:25.178)
Yeah.

Eli Price (12:30.266)
Hmm.

Eli Price (12:42.818)
Riot.

Daniel Blackaby (12:48.679)
And it was like a weird thing where my dad only rented the first and the third and he skipped over the second because he wanted to make sure we liked it. And so I never got the Darth Vader surprise. It was spoiled for me because I never got that movie until later. And so I feel like those movies in a different kind of category. But outside of those, of just a standalone movie, this would be my favorite movie. It's the movie that I'm probably the opposite of you.

Eli Price (13:12.442)
Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (13:16.027)
Like you were saying, you have so many movies to watch that it took you a while to get to Jaws. I'm totally the kind of person that, you know, I'll get like an evening free and it's like, there's all these movies I haven't watched. You know, we have like, however many streaming platforms, I should watch Jaws again. Just throw it back on and I, you know, I don't know how many times I've seen this movie, but it's a lot. So yeah, it's probably my favorite is sort of standalone movie.

Eli Price (13:30.298)
Yeah.

Eli Price (13:35.224)
Yeah.

Eli Price (13:40.954)
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. It's, it's one of those things where you have, you kind of have to have one to like pull out of the pocket when someone asks what your favorite movie is, even if like, there's not technically one, you still have to say something. But in this, I would say Jaws is a good one to have a have in your pocket for, for that answer. Um, but yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (14:04.071)
It was funny how many, because it's not an uncommon, like, you see tons of people that will reference Jaws as like their favorite. Maybe that's the kind of circles I'm around. I follow the different pages of the people that are big Jaws people. But it seems like a lot of people, it's a go -to for people. I should say too, I just remembered, I don't remember the first time I saw Jaws.

Eli Price (14:07.64)
Yeah.

Eli Price (14:14.36)
Mm -hmm.

Eli Price (14:18.362)
Sure.

Daniel Blackaby (14:33.383)
But I do remember, I think, when I really got hooked on it, because I was, I was, would have been like a teenager, like first year of college, and I was working at like a real rundown, like video rental store, like back when they, those things still existed. And like, we could just take movies out for free. And like, I wasn't even necessarily a huge movie person, but I forget why, I was going to be home alone or something, and I had rented, like not just Jaws, but like all the Jaws, like, you know, Jaws 2, and like,

Eli Price (14:46.49)
Mm -hmm.

Daniel Blackaby (15:02.535)
you know, Jaws the Revenge, and I just marathon Jaws movies like all weekend. And I just got so hooked. I mean, they get progressively worse as they go, but just so hooked into it. And I think, I feel like I was at a good age then to like, I know I'd already seen it, but it'd probably been a while, but it's kind of from then that it's like, oh, this is some good stuff. I can watch this, you know, more often. I know I need to, so probably from then is when it like became like my favorite movie.

Eli Price (15:07.64)
Nice.

Eli Price (15:11.354)
Yeah.

Eli Price (15:17.754)
Right.

Eli Price (15:22.904)
Oh yeah.

Eli Price (15:31.034)
Yeah. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. That's, um, it's so as soon as I saw this back a few years ago, um, now I have some, like, I have a few like pretty big Spielberg blind spots that I'll be catching up with as I, as I cover, you know, his movies, but, um, but jaws is like instantly jumped to the top of, of his filmography for me.

Um, when I saw it, I was like, this is his best movie. It's so good. Um, but, uh, we'll, we'll kind of jump into, um, uh, kind of the making of jaws. And this is, um, a quote that I got from Spielberg. Um, he said, when I think about jaws, I think about courage and stupidity. Um, and that's, that's, uh, kind of how he opens up, um, uh, the, the.

kind of making of Jaws documentary is with with that quote. So, yeah, he he has very Spielberg himself has very mixed feelings about about Jaws because for him and a lot of the the casting crew, it was a very grueling, terrible process of of production and shooting and and all that. But, you know, he he always says he's.

He's very appreciative of it because it really is the thing that catapulted his career into what it is now. But I just, I thought that would be a good way to start off our talk about Jaws. He thinks, he was, so it was, 74 was when they were shooting. He was born in 46. So he was, what, 20,

Daniel Blackaby (17:10.983)
Because how old was he? Do you know?

Eli Price (17:26.138)
26, 27, I guess. Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (17:29.735)
Yeah, I know he was in his mid, which is this crazy to like.

Eli Price (17:34.202)
Yeah. Yeah. 27, I think. Cause, um, he was, or 28, he was 24. I know when dual was made and that was 71 and this came out, it was shot in 74 three years later. So yeah, 27. Um, which is crazy, uh, to think about, um, that he, yeah, it's just wild how young he was. Um, and.

There was really like that whole bunch of his kind of him and his peers at the time, like Lucas and Scorsese and the Palma and all those guys were just like so young and just like excited, like making phenomenal movies, like right off the bat, which is crazy to think about. Like they definitely had like just a incredible, that's a, that's an incredible generation of filmmakers for sure.

And they're still.

Daniel Blackaby (18:32.743)
Because you feel like that will never be top either, and maybe in quality, but just the idea of a bunch of 20 -something -year -olds making these out there. Nowadays, everything's so structured, or at least a bit more structured and very franchise and all these things. The idea of some 27 -year -old is out there making some big blockbuster movie is crazy.

Eli Price (18:36.642)
Yeah.

Eli Price (18:42.168)
Mm -hmm.

Eli Price (18:50.746)
Yeah.

Eli Price (18:56.474)
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. But yeah, it all started with the Peter Benchley novel of the same name Jaws. And we had texted a little bit. We've both read this book. How long ago did you read it? Do you remember? Was it?

Daniel Blackaby (19:14.215)
Yeah, like a month ago. So at the start of that, I had already bought it because I've been always meant to read it. So I bought it. And then when you asked to come on the podcast, like, oh, that's a good excuse to pull it off the off the shelf and finally kind of work through it. And just because I've always been curious.

Eli Price (19:17.624)
Okay.

Eli Price (19:30.074)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I listened to the audiobook version. And yeah, what were your thoughts on the book? I'm kind of a little mixed myself, I guess you could say, on the book. But.

Daniel Blackaby (19:46.695)
Yeah, I mean, my thought is that it's not good. I don't think that and I don't I feel like it's hard. Like I'm so biased that like it's and a lot of the things. You realize a lot of the things I like most about the JAWS movie are the things that he changed from the book, like the character dynamics and some of the so it's hard to be like, oh, like this book sort of is the reverse of that. It takes the things I love about this movie and then it like.

Eli Price (19:54.65)
Yeah.

Eli Price (20:04.282)
Yeah. Mm -hmm.

Eli Price (20:12.538)
Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (20:15.271)
I mean, obviously I did it first, but experiencing it second, like, oh, I actually, I kind of hate all these, like none of these characters are likable, which is one of my favorite parts of the movie, like the dynamics. I mean, it gets fine for a pulpy, you know, like it has some fun and scares or whatever, but just not streamlined.

Eli Price (20:17.306)
Yeah.

Eli Price (20:24.666)
Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Eli Price (20:32.986)
right.

Eli Price (20:37.498)
I even found, yeah, I even found like the suspense parts to be really like dull. Like I never felt like my heart beating faster while I was listening to it or, you know, I mean, and I, you get that when you read like Harry Potter and it's, you know, written for kids. And I'm like, but this guy can't read, write like a shark thriller that like gets my heart pumping. And I was just, I was kind of like, eh, I don't know if this book is.

Very good. I guess it was just kind of like a, one of those things where it's like the right time that came out at the right time in the summer and people grabbed it on their way to the beach or vacation and easy read. And it became a best seller. I guess, I don't know. It's, it's kind of.

Yeah, I read it and, and to like the, like you said, none of the characters are like mostly unlikeable. Like the wife isn't very likable. Hooper isn't very likable. Um, I guess Brody kind of is, but definitely less so than in the movie. So.

Daniel Blackaby (21:46.535)
Yeah, definitely less Hollywood eyes. He's not really the hero. And I feel like one of the differences, too, with the book is that, like you said, the shark stuff is almost an afterthought. It's really more about, which I think even in the book that I read, there's the prelude or whatever from the author. And he sort of says it's really about the island and what the shark does and how people respond to that. And the shark's just sort of there to like.

Eli Price (21:56.73)
Yeah.

Eli Price (22:08.41)
Mm -hmm.

Daniel Blackaby (22:15.417)
spark a lot of these tensions on the island. You can understand the appeal of that, but with Spielberg though, the shark is really the... You get some of the stuff off the island, but most of it is driven by just this ever -present fear of the shark. Where the book, you can go like whole chapters and almost forget you're reading about a shark book. It's like there's no mention of it or it's...

Eli Price (22:18.266)
Mm -hmm.

Eli Price (22:38.106)
Yeah.

Eli Price (22:42.458)
Mm -hmm.

Eli Price (22:46.746)
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So like the main things he took out were like a lot of the, I guess the major like bird's eye view story points are still there with some tweaks, you know, along the way, but he did take out some like major plot points from the books. So there's like the fair with Hooper and Brody's wife.

Um, which is, I don't know, it's a little too raunchy for my taste. Um, uh, you know, I know there's a big market for, for those romance novels out there, but it's, it's not, not for me. Um, and, uh, so I did appreciate that. He took all that stuff out of the movie, but then you also have like the really like kind of overwrought.

mafia stuff with the mayor. Like the mayor's kind of like caught up with the mafia and

Daniel Blackaby (23:49.191)
Yeah, all his motivations are very much kind of self -serving, like his own investments.

Eli Price (23:51.96)
Yeah.

This is...

Yeah. It's just like, it's just weird. It's like, okay, then mayor's caught up with the mafia. Like, okay, you know, it's, it's just all strange to me in the book. Um, but yeah, I'm, I think, um, I think Spielberg did like the first, cause they did the, they got the original script written by Benchley. Um, they actually bought, um,

Daniel Blackaby (24:25.415)
Which I didn't realize.

Eli Price (24:27.674)
Yeah. Yeah. So Zanuck and Brown, they, they were probably best known, like not known because people don't really know producers. Um, but, uh, if you were in the know, they had just made the sting, which was a big movie. Um, star it starred Robert Shaw. Um, so that's kind of his connection, how he ended up, uh, coming on, uh, to the film, but they,

actually bought the rights to the story before it was published. And they bought it for $150 ,000, which, which eventually in an interview was like, I thought I was like, making out big time, selling something the book for 150 ,000. And yeah, little did he know that it was going to go on to be like the biggest movie of up to that point, you know.

But yeah, they had the rights. And Spielberg wasn't the first consideration. They wanted to have John Sturgis make it, who directed The Magnificent Seven, The Great Escape, some of those really kind of big epic movies from not far before. Another director, which.

If you watch like the making of documentary, they don't mention who this director is, but the, the book I'm reading, which if you're watching, you can kind of see is like right up here over my head. Um, uh, Spill, uh, Steven Spielberg, all the films, it has the name of the director. So I guess at some point in time, the name of this director has come out. Um, the reason they didn't mention his name is because they, they didn't hire him because he kept mixing up well and shark. Um,

Like he kept saying like, Oh, I've really always wanted to make a good whale movie. And they entered the end of the interview and they're like, well, with this guy, we can't give it to this guy. Um, his name was Dick Williams. Um, which I thought that was such a funny, funny little anecdote. Like, I really want to make a whale movie. It's like, well, I'm making a whale movie. Right.

Daniel Blackaby (26:42.343)
or Moby Dick remake or...

Eli Price (26:47.258)
But, um, but Spielberg actually, um, he had gotten ahold of the story himself. He, um, he had, I guess, kind of heard through the grapevine somewhere that they were going to be making this and he was interested in it, but also kind of like, not sure if he wanted to do it, uh, because he, you know, he had just made dual, uh, which is a very similar kind of premise of a beast like truck. Um,

terrorizing kind of a everyday man in his car. So it's kind of that similar sort of like little thriller, you know, beast versus man kind of thing. And then the Sugarland Express was a little different, but also still kind of a. Yeah, I think I think he was just wary of like not getting pigeonholed as a director of, oh, I make this sort of movie.

Um, but he did end up getting hired. They hired him in, in June of 73. Um, he rewrote the script from, um, Benchley himself at first. Um, but if you like what, listen to interviews, he he's like under no pretense that he's a good, like a very good writer. Uh, and so he was like, you know, I wrote this, rewrote it because, you know, we didn't like a lot of them Benchley stuff. And so.

I rewrote it, but I wanted to have like someone like good at writing to come on and help me. Um, so it kind of went through a couple of different things. Um, they, um, they brought on a guy named Howard Sackler who they pretty much everyone credits with, um, originating the idea of the, uh, USS Indianapolis speech. Um, so thankfully they, they have brought him on. He wasn't, he didn't want credit cause he didn't do a whole lot of work.

on it. But yeah, and then they eventually brought on Carl Gottlieb, who is the credited writer for the movie and him and Spielberg. You could probably. From what I gather from all the interviews and things I've read, you could probably actually like have them as co -writers because it seems like Spielberg really had like a lot of influence on the work of the writing for the for the movie.

Eli Price (29:14.092)
And, and like some of the scenes, like he, he's the one that came up with them in his kind of rewrite. Like the, you have the, um, like the scene with the, on the pier where the guys are like using the roast, uh, like that was Spielberg's kind of, uh, in his rewrite. Um, there were some things he took out that I thought would have been interesting. One was kind of an introduction to Quint.

Daniel Blackaby (29:27.727)
Yeah.

Eli Price (29:42.042)
And he was going to have him in like the local Amity theater watching Moby Dick and like laughing maniacally, like more like louder and louder and like driving people out of the theater as he just like laughs maniacally and hysterically at the movie Moby Dick. So that would have been interesting.

Daniel Blackaby (30:03.719)
Did you just feel like it was too on the nose? Like, it's really inspired by...

Eli Price (30:06.394)
Well, I think they couldn't get, I think he said they, yeah, I think he couldn't say they couldn't get the rights to it for some reason or another. Um, the guy that had the rights to it, which who was, he was either the director or the, or like the main actor in it, um, wasn't like all that proud of it, uh, as a movie. And so he didn't really want to like, he didn't want it to come across as like they were making fun of it. And he's also already like self -conscious of it. So.

Daniel Blackaby (30:28.583)
Yeah.

Eli Price (30:36.346)
So he didn't like sell them the rights, uh, which I guess makes sense. Um, the other like really cool scene that he talks about that they didn't end up using. Um, I guess I think it was because it would have been part of it would have been redundant. They were just trying to like cut out, like trim the fat on how many like kills they were going to do. Um, but this one, he had like this idea for a scene where like you're.

there's a guy on a, on a pier or something and you're looking out and there's a bunch of sailboats kind of out in the water and you can kind of see the sailboats like kind of sway out of the way as kind of a visual of the shark approaching. And then he like comes up and gets the guy like pulling up a crab trap or something. Um, and I was like, Oh, that would have been a really cool visual like moment to add, but, but yeah, we didn't get that one. So.

Um, but yeah, they, uh, they really like, they really had to like get moving on this cause there was like an impending actor strike that was a possible possibly coming up. Um, so they were trying to like get started before that got going and they wanted to like line it up with the release of the paperback, the release of the movie. Um, and so they like pressured him to get going on it, even though.

They didn't have a completed like finalized budget and they didn't have a completed script. So they really started working on this like without even kind of knowing what they were, what they were in for, which is wild to think about. But, uh, yeah, I think, um, well, before, I guess, before we get into the production, let's talk a little bit about the cast. Um,

Who would you say is like your, is like the, in this movie, if you had to pick one, who is like the perfect cast, casting choice?

Daniel Blackaby (32:45.351)
I mean, I feel like the Holy Trinity of the three are all just great. I think Hooper's always been my favorite. I love his, I feel like he brings a lot of humor and just energy to the, but I mean, Brody is just like a good classic Hollywood kind of hero. Like he's, you know, he's capable, but he's, you know, and he's funny. And I mean, Quint is probably...

Eli Price (32:49.466)
Right.

Eli Price (33:05.818)
Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (33:13.767)
I would feel like everyone's least favorite, but I feel like that's by design. I feel like the casting of Quint, he's awesome. He's in it way less than, it's like an hour into the movie before he really joins the cast, but he makes such an impression. Just all his little sayings and songs, he just so embodies that kind of crazed Captain Ahab kind of character.

Eli Price (33:29.976)
Mm -hmm.

Eli Price (33:43.61)
Oh yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (33:43.751)
that the three of them, I know, which we'll probably get into, maybe off camera, they maybe didn't have as much chemistry all the time, but on, you know, like in the movie, they work so well off each other that it's this real perfect casting.

Eli Price (33:56.346)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. They, um, for, yeah, for dry fists, uh, the, for the, like, so the story goes for him that, uh, Lucas recommended, um, him to Spielberg. Uh, they were buddies and he was in American graffiti. And so he recommended them and they met with dry fists. Uh, they wanted him for Hooper. Um, and he like turned it down at first. He.

He thought it was like a movie that he would like watching, but maybe wouldn't be very good acting in. And he just like, wasn't really too sure about it. And then like, it's funny, cause in the making of documentary, he tells the story himself. And he's like, and then I saw, I think the movie was, I have it written down.

the apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz, which I've never seen. But it was a movie that was releasing that he was the star of. He was kind of the lead. And he said he saw his performance in that and was like, I've got to get another job right away. He wasn't too proud of that performance, I guess. And he called Steven Spielberg up. And the way he says it is like, I basically like begged Steven Spielberg to like it.

Daniel Blackaby (35:11.879)
I'm

Eli Price (35:24.194)
let me have the part if it was still available. So I thought that was a funny little anecdote about Jephis getting the part. But yeah, he really is. Jephis to me brings...

Like, so if you think about that trio, if it's just Brody and Clint, it's just not the same movie. He just brings that like there's like a youthful energy that he brings that I feel like is so necessary for that, that dynamic. And.

Daniel Blackaby (36:00.647)
Because even like this, like we're the scene where he's like driving the boat and Quince banging underneath and he's sort of like, you know, talking like, aye, aye, Captain. Like just those sort of stuff that like Brody can't really pull off the, that sort of, you know, the wit, right? This thing, the more sharper sort of comedic stuff that, that I feel like just brings some like levity to, you know, if you say some of that youthful energy to a movie that could have been a bit more like straight.

Eli Price (36:05.4)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Eli Price (36:13.058)
Right.

Eli Price (36:18.938)
Mm -hmm.

Eli Price (36:26.362)
Oh yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (36:30.119)
But yeah, I don't think this movie works the same way if you take out him from it.

Eli Price (36:35.386)
Yeah. And he also like he, his relationship with Brody kind of apart from the ship, he, he's got that like youthful, like I'm not caught up in, in this system. And I'm not like, uh, I'm, I'm young, like, I'm not going to get caught. Like, I don't have to like stand for this kind of energy that rebel young rebellious energy, I guess.

And he's like willing to say stuff that like Brody's like too, um, I guess like afraid to say, uh, because it might cost him something and dry fists is care, like dry fists as Hooper is just like, no, I'm going to say that I'm going to tell the mayor to his face that he's like an idiot, you know? Um, so I, I appreciate that too. Um, for, for chief Martin Brody, um,

One of the things I, um, I thought was really like surprising was that Charlton Heston actually like wanted the role. He like went, put himself forward for the role of, of chief Brody and Spielberg kind of had this idea that he didn't want like superstars in the movie because they felt like it would like steal the show from the shark. And so he turned Charlton Heston down, which again,

He's a 27 year old director. He's like, uh, Oh, Charlton Heston wants to be on my movie. Uh, no, no, he's not good for the part. It just turns him down. Um, and I think Heston like swore him off and was like, I'm never going to be in a Steven Spielberg movie, which, um, probably at the time was like, you know, probably a bad news for Spielberg, but like in hindsight, it.

Daniel Blackaby (38:04.505)
Early director.

Eli Price (38:30.682)
probably ended up being bad news for, for Heston, um, to not be in a Spielberg movie. Uh, I just thought that was crazy. Um, the other, other person that, um, they had, they, that, that had declined. I can't remember why was a Robert Duvall. They were going to give that the role to him. Um, and it's kind of hard to imagine. Not Roy Scheider who ends up getting the role as Brody cause he has that.

I don't know. I feel like Heston and Duvall are maybe like too magnetic of like personas and Brody's supposed to kind of be like a everyman, like a, you know, he's in charge, but he doesn't feel like he's in charge kind of guy.

Daniel Blackaby (39:19.943)
Yeah, there's always almost an insecurity to his character. He's always the outsider, just not going to step forward. Yeah, someone with a more, especially someone that you recognize as typically being more a leading kind of.

Eli Price (39:23.386)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (39:38.503)
I mean, it would just be a different character. It would just be a bit more of a kind of sort of, but. Because yes, Snyder very much is like you said, the everyman. I feel like he of the three, like he's the only one that he has family and he has kids. He's sort of the the heart or the attachment that for the audience, like you're invested in. There's like the crazed kind of semen and then there's like the young kind of, you know, preppy boy. But then Brody's like the.

Eli Price (39:45.146)
Beer.

Eli Price (39:56.57)
Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (40:07.431)
He's sort of like our guy. He's in over his head, like both the other guys. He doesn't know how to work a ship. He doesn't really know how to do anything useful on the ship. But he's just going to do what he can.

Eli Price (40:09.818)
Oh yeah.

Eli Price (40:21.242)
Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Scheider just like, he met Spielberg at a party and, um, the way he tells it is he like overheard them talking about jaws and then like went up and met Steven. Um, and then like, as he was walking away, they started like back into their jaws conversation and he was thinking like, these guys are a little loopy. Like what kind of movie are they talking about? And then, um, he, uh, he talked with Spielberg more and.

Um, later on and spillover was like, we can't find anyone for this role. And Shire was just kind of like, you know, I could do it. And spillover was like, oh yeah. Okay. And that's kind of how he got there. It's so funny. Like how, like these stories of how people get cast sometimes it's just like, Oh, I wanted this guy. I caught him and he said, yes. But then you get like stories like these with dry fists and Shire that are just like, yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (41:16.679)
Well, so many like what ifs, like these chance encounters and then they end up with these like iconic roles, but.

Eli Price (41:24.026)
Yeah. Um, which, uh, a fun thing about Scheider, um, is so one of the things that Spielberg, I think that worked so well about this movie is they were constantly like him and Gottlieb were constantly reworking the script as the movie went along. And so because of that, they're, you know, the cast was getting, you know, scripts for the day, sometimes like it was the first time they were seeing it. And so.

Spielberg kind of allowed for a lot of like improvisation and, um, kind of making things your own. And so the, probably the most iconic line from the movie is probably we're going to need a bigger boat. Um, and that was just, there it is on, uh, on your jaws mug. And, uh, that was improvised by, uh, Roy Scheider. Um, it wasn't like written in the script or anything. He just kind of came up with it, uh, in that moment, which is really.

Daniel Blackaby (42:08.691)
Thank

Daniel Blackaby (42:20.711)
Which you know, it's kind of interesting about that, that I never, I just, I read it in a, I don't know if you've heard of this book called You Talking to Me. And it's, it's a recent book, but it's, it just analyzes like the 50 most iconic lines in movies. And it gives like the history behind like the, how did that, you know, how was it in the script? Like how was it, you know, how did it come about? So they have the, we're going to need a bigger boat. So I was like reading through that and apparently at least according to this book.

Eli Price (42:42.714)
Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (42:50.151)
that line had already become sort of like a joke. Like the cast, like the crew, because they were using like a cheap kind of boat with the film and it just wasn't big enough to do that they kept sort of harping on it, we're gonna need a bigger boat. I think eventually they did like upgrade the boat they were using in the sea and stuff. So I think like when, at least if that's true, like in the moment, you know, Schneider,

Eli Price (42:59.834)
Gotcha.

Daniel Blackaby (43:19.911)
pulls out sort of this running gag that has been going around. And then it just works so perfect in the context of that moment.

Eli Price (43:27.002)
Yeah.

Well, he delivers it so straight, which is surprising if it was like kind of an inside joke for the crew, like the crew. Uh, but he delivers it so straight and it's like, I wonder if they like, he was just kind of like laughing it off, like, Oh, let's take again. And they're like, no, that was perfect. You know, uh, that's, that's crazy. Um, the other, like, I guess of the trio would be Shaw, which we've touched on already, um, as Quint.

Robert Shaw, um, they, they had wanted a Lee Marvin for this position for this, um, who the, the only thing I've, I recognized a few movies that he's in, but the one that stood out was, um, he played Liberty Valance and the man who shot Liberty Valance, um, which I don't know if you've ever seen that, but, uh, I could definitely see, um, Liberty Valance is like this, like really vile.

a character. And so when I, when I heard that, I was like, Oh, okay. That like, I could see maybe that. Um, and they had some other, other people they were interested in, but, um, but Shaw had the connection with the producers and they ended up going with him and his role, I think is the one that it feels them the most to me. Like, I don't know if it would have.

I don't know if anyone else could have done it like he did it sort of role. Like you could maybe see some other people doing Brody and Hooper like similarly, but like Shaw as Quint feels like, man, I don't know if anyone else could have like pulled that role off exactly like him. Um,

Daniel Blackaby (45:17.031)
Well, I feel like it's a role that could very easily come across cartoonish. Like someone trying to, I'm the crazy captain, and there's all his little songs and the random sayings. But just the way he delivers all of that, it never, at least to me, it never feels like some hokey, oh, here's the cliched crazy captain that wants to get the big fish kind of guy.

Eli Price (45:24.152)
Yeah.

Eli Price (45:29.56)
Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (45:46.407)
It just, he sells it so straight that you believe it. You believe he's this sort of guy that, and he brings enough, I think, which we'll probably, I'm sure we'll get into his speech, but he brings enough humanity that he's not a totally irredeemable, crazy guy. You get enough to grasp on to believe that this guy's seen some stuff. He's been through stuff, he's had hardships, he's been alone.

Eli Price (45:49.722)
Oh yeah.

Eli Price (46:00.186)
Mm -hmm.

Daniel Blackaby (46:13.927)
He's a human, like he's not just this sort of funny kind of persona that he probably puts on. But yeah, he's such a good, you know, in that role, he's perfectly cast.

Eli Price (46:19.674)
Right.

Eli Price (46:26.458)
Yeah. And, um, I almost wonder if like, when you like read stories about him, like off camera, I almost wonder if he was so good because he was a bit of a drunk off camera too, which, uh, which I think the person that you hear that, uh, stories of getting the most, the biggest brunt of that is dry fists. Um, apparently like the, the like berating of.

Hooper didn't stop when the camera turned off. He just, he just kept berating him and like terrorizing Dreyfus like all the time. Um, the, my favorite story that I heard, um, I can't remember if it was Spielberg or who was telling this story, but there is a moment where like, drive, uh, Shaw was basically like,

daring dry fist to climb to the top of the mass and jump off into the ocean and like offered him like a thousand dollars if he did it and like kept up in the money and Call it like calling him all sorts of like names that I'm not gonna say on the episode Because he wasn't doing it I'm just like what is who is this guy like he's like terrorizing this kid But uh, I

But apparently Spielberg himself like stepped in and finally was like, listen, listen, Shaw, he's not going to jump off the mass. Like we need him alive for the movie. Um, so that, that was like, I guess like the biggest example of like, man, Dreyfus really got, uh, got the short end of the stick when it came to, uh, the, the drunken terror of Robert Shaw. Um,

Yeah, he, he, he really was perfect. The, um, one of the little anecdotes that I thought was really interesting, um, go, it kind of goes back to that, like improvisation thing. Um, he, he does the little line when they're like packing up the ship about like, here lies Mary Lee. Um, and you know, you're on so with like something about her virginity and because of the, yeah, for this vicinity. Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (48:44.263)
Not a bad record, you know, for this vicinity.

Eli Price (48:48.346)
So Spielberg, like after that, he like went up, he was like, that was great. Like, hey, like, you know, let me know, you know, where you got that from, because we're going to have to see if we can get the rights to it. And and Shaw was just like, I don't think we'll have to worry about that. I saw that on a tombstone in Ireland that was on someone, a person named Mary Lee's tombstone, apparently in Ireland, which is great. Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (49:14.759)
That's wild. Well, I had wondered how much of that was scripted. All those little sayings, how much you're.

Eli Price (49:19.962)
Yeah. So he, it was improvised, but he remembered it from that tombstone. Uh, which is, it's just one of those things like actors that can like pull stuff out like that. It's just like, so impressive to me. Um, that's just, I can't do that. Um, but yeah, it's, it's really good that, um, other than those.

Daniel Blackaby (49:24.455)
Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (49:44.359)
Which have you seen, have you seen, I think his son, because he passed away, but his son has like a solo, like kind of Broadway show. Have you seen anything about that? Like, it's like, I think it's called The Shark is Broken. Like, and he like embodies, he embodies like his father and this is great. Like he, you know, he can, he can, he can really pull off the character. I haven't seen the show. I've just seen interviews and stuff about it.

Eli Price (49:50.714)
Mm -hmm.

Eli Price (49:56.314)
is yeah I've heard about I heard that it was a thing yeah

Eli Price (50:05.53)
Cool.

Eli Price (50:12.57)
Okay.

Daniel Blackaby (50:12.711)
But he's keeping sort of that legacy. He has the hat. He kind of dresses like him and then he embodies Quint. But it's very cool to see that.

Eli Price (50:19.866)
Yeah. Yeah, I heard that that was a thing. I'm going to have to like, uh, look that up and see if there's any clips on YouTube of that, cause that'd be cool to see. Um, yeah, that's, that's a, that's a cool, uh, cool little legacy, I guess, uh, that he gets to carry on. Um, other characters, everyone else is pretty like, I wouldn't say like on the sidelines, but definitely like secondary. Um,

But like the roles are really well played. Lorraine Gary plays Ellen Brody. Lorraine Gary is actually the wife of Sid Sheinberg, who is an executive at Universal that really got Spielberg's career off the ground. So that's a cool connection. And she was one of the first ones he cast for the film. Murray Hamilton played

Mayor Larry Vaughn and, uh, he, um, the, the role I recognized him from was he played Mr. Robinson and the graduate. Um, so I'm sure, sure people recognized him from that. Uh, and it's Bilger actually said that was his like first and only choice for, for the mayor. Uh, so it's a good thing he got him signed on.

Carl Gottlieb, who's a writer, he was actually brought on as an actor before they hired him on as a writer too. I think he's Meadows, who I think is supposed to be the reporter character. Yeah, which I think that's one thing that might have been interesting to have a little bit more in the movie of that.

Daniel Blackaby (52:00.903)
Yeah, in the book he's way, he's like a way more prominent role.

Eli Price (52:12.762)
that character, because he is an interesting character, um, in the book, um, as far, you know, as, as interesting as they actually get in the book, he's, he's one of the more interesting ones, I think. Um, at least like his motivations are interesting at least. Um, but I guess like once Scott Lieb was like hired on as a writer, it kind of like his role got sidelined, but, uh, it, it probably is for the best. Um,

probably some like fat trimmed as far as that goes. But yeah, everyone else is just kind of like side people. The only other the only other person I thought was like really interesting was the girl who plays Chrissy that is the victim, the first victim. She was just like a stunt woman in a bunch of films and got hired on and like she she wasn't like real sure if like she could act very well, but.

She, I feel like she did pretty good for the part. And, um, and we can kind of talk, uh, in just a bit about like how they pulled that scene off, which was really cool. Um, seeing how they did all of the, the stunt work for that. Um, but first, uh, as far as production goes, we should go back to the beginning because Xanuck and Brown really wanted to do most of the movie with live sharks. Um, before they,

Uh, started working on the mechanical shark. And, um, so the first thing they did was they sent a crew to Australia and, um, they worked with this Australian couple who had done, um, a documentary. Um, I can't remember what it was called off the top of my head. Um, but, uh, yeah, this Australian couple did worked with them, uh, shoot, getting some like live footage of sharks. Uh, they, they were like, Oh, well,

You know, the sharks we have are like 14 feet and it's not going to look as big as the shark that you want in the movie. Um, and so what Spielberg's idea was to make like a miniature cage, um, so that the proportions would look right with the smaller shark. And he like casted for a little person to be, uh, in the, like the scuba diver in the cage. And.

Eli Price (54:35.674)
He ended up like casting this guy that, um, had like gotten in a wreck outside of the studio. And, uh, he like came in and he was like, he like ran across the street and it was like almost late for the interview. He's like, ah, I got in a wreck and spill real good. Like he kind of like was bleeding a little bit. And Spielberg was like, you're not supposed to leave the scene of the wreck. And so they sent him back and he came back and Spielberg just liked how like,

how much he wanted the part that he like left his wreck to come for the interview and hired him, which I thought was really funny. But yeah, they, they did actually, you can see in like the making of documentary, um, he was like not a trained scuba diver. So they, they really like probably should have gotten someone that had more experience with that. Um, but, uh, yeah, he's in like the little like miniature version of the cage and, um, but they, they didn't get like very much.

good footage with the sharks. Um, what that, what they did get was, uh, cause when they left Australia, they weren't even sure if they had any usable footage. Um, and they had started working on the mechanical shark. So, um, but when they got the footage back, they actually, um, got this really great footage of one of the sharks. He had like gotten stuck on something and was like thrashing around and like, um, so in the movie,

Daniel Blackaby (56:02.021)
Go ahead.

Eli Price (56:05.562)
We actually get that footage, but there was nobody in the cage for that footage. And so like in the movie, like you'll notice like the shark, like thrashing around and the cage is like getting tossed around and stuff with no one in it. And so they actually Hooper was actually supposed to die in the movie, like he did in the book. But in that. Yeah. So in that they loved that footage, they got so much that they rewrote.

Daniel Blackaby (56:26.287)
Oh yeah, I was wondering about that.

Eli Price (56:34.17)
that part of the movie so that Hooper got out of the cage before the shark like really got going on it. Um, and so, which I think is so fun, like so funny to me, like let's rewrite our whole end of the movie. Um, and they actually like went back out and like reshot some stuff with like Hooper coming back up and then swim into shore together and stuff. Um, yeah, it does.

Daniel Blackaby (56:59.047)
That's funny, because that changes the movie. If he dies, then it's not the feel good. Because Quint dies, but he's the one you're the least attached to. But having the main two live, and then there's their little banters. There's paddling back to shore together. I feel like having him die would just be a bummer. That would change. Because I know in the book that surprised me that he, again, I didn't know that he died in the book. And I was like, oh.

Eli Price (57:05.464)
Mm -hmm.

Eli Price (57:17.306)
Yeah.

Eli Price (57:23.768)
Yeah.

Eli Price (57:28.602)
Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (57:28.881)
I mean, he's unlikable in the book, so it's not the same. But that's funny that that's what led to his character surviving with some footage we got of him.

Eli Price (57:36.346)
Yeah. They just like got this awesome real shark footage, but, and we want to use it. So let's rewrite the whole movie, the whole end of the movie.

Daniel Blackaby (57:45.351)
Is that the only real life shark footage or is there other?

Eli Price (57:49.114)
Uh, no, there's some more. There's some other sections like, um, it's more like, uh, you know, like insert shots and stuff here and there of, of like real shark footage they got. Um, but, um, but there's so little shark in the movie, um, like actually shown that like, you, they didn't really end up needing a whole lot of like live shark footage. Um, I want to say there's like one other part where there's.

live, like a actual like live shark, uh, being shown most of the rest of it, other than that shark thrashing around with the cage. Um, and then obviously, you know, it's the mechanical shark when he's actually like coming into the cage and Hooper still in there. Um, yeah, there's just, there's not a lot of even mechanical sharks. So it's, it's, it, that's kind of like that. The happy accident of the movie is like,

that the shark didn't work. And I guess along with it, the other happy accident is that like they got that awesome footage that changed the end of the movie. But yeah, that's that's crazy to think about. They they started shooting and like officially in 74 May of 74 and Spielberg.

basically like insisted on shooting it on the actual ocean. And I think he probably, I bet if you asked him, he probably like is proud of that decision and regrets it at the same time. It probably follows suit with his feeling of like courage and stupidity that we kind of started this discussion off with. But they had...

wanted to maybe possibly do it in Jamaica because it had such clear waters. Um, but they ended up choosing Martha's vineyard, which, um, which I think is pretty like pretty common, like trivia knowledge of like, Oh, where was Josh Sharpe Martha's vineyard? You know, um, it's a little Island off the coast of Massachusetts. Uh, and they chose it, uh, because the shallow water goes like way out from the Island.

Eli Price (01:00:15.258)
Um, I think even to a point like where you're far enough out where you can't really like necessarily like see the shore and it's still only like 35 feet or something. And so Spielberg was like, well, I wanted to like, if we dropped them shark or something where it would be retrievable, but still, but he still wanted the effect of like, Oh, we're in the middle of the ocean. Like you can't see the shore. Um, he just thought that would like,

make the audience say like, Oh, why don't you just go back over that way? We see the shore over there. Like just go home. Um, so that worked out really well. Um, Martha's Vineyard though, like the, the people that live there, weren't like too receptive of having the film crew there. And, um, and there was like tons of red tape. Uh, like I want to say the, the scene with the big billboard, you know, um,

Where they're arguing with the mayor. They had to put that billboard up, um, that morning and do their shooting and then take it back down. Um, like as soon as they were done shooting, uh, just because the, I guess the, the government there or whatever was just like so strict on, on them as a film crew, they, they really didn't want them there. It seems like, um, and I, I bet they regret that now because I bet they get tons of like.

tourism of people like oh, let's go check out this place where Jaws was shot So I bet they embrace it now, I don't know that for a fact maybe they don't but I would be willing to bet they do Would you go visit Martha's Vineyard if you were in Massachusetts to see where Jaws were sharked?

Daniel Blackaby (01:02:01.575)
Well, there's a, I think it's, I think it was supposed to be this year, but I think for whatever reason it got postponed, there's like a 50th anniversary, like Jaws celebration there. And it's like, they've announced it. I think the dates are out, but they haven't announced the details, but it's supposed to be like a big gathering there. And like, I'm sure they'll like show the movie on some big screen and like have all this stuff. So I was.

Eli Price (01:02:14.778)
Okay.

Eli Price (01:02:24.194)
Yeah.

Eli Price (01:02:27.768)
Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (01:02:30.161)
I've been trying to lay the hints down to my wife that that would make a good vacation to go to a nice place and then slip off to go have a little Jaws party with a bunch of other strangers. But yeah, I haven't been there, but I need to go there.

Eli Price (01:02:34.818)
Yeah.

Eli Price (01:02:41.882)
Yeah. That would be really cool. Yeah, that would be really cool actually. Are they doing it this year or next year? Because I, yeah, for the, because it was released 75.

Daniel Blackaby (01:02:50.919)
I think it's next year, next summer.

Okay, so next year would be the anniversary. Yeah, so for the 50th.

Eli Price (01:02:58.394)
Yeah, would be 50th. Yeah, that would be that would be really cool. Yeah. So, yeah, they're definitely like they're definitely proud of it now. They weren't at the time, apparently. But yeah, they the June 11th is when they shot the so, you know, they spent I guess I guess they spent like that first month ish kind of shooting.

in studio and stuff in the Indianapolis speech was like one of the last things they shot before they went out to see. Um, and, uh, the story for that is that Shaw for the first shooting was like, I guess he was thinking like, Oh, this is my chance to get actually drunk while we're shooting because I'm supposed to be drunk in the movie, but he was like too drunk to do the speech well. And, um,

He's like, really felt ashamed and like called Spielberg up and was like, Hey, can you, you know, give me another chance? And so they shot it, reshot it the next day too. Um, but they ended up apparently using footage from both nights, um, in the edit. Uh, so I guess he got some good drunken stuff out of Shaw that first night. Um, but man, that guy, he, um, he must've been, uh,

Must have been a, he must have been a bit of a pain on set, I would imagine. But not as big of a pain as the, the, the Bruce the shark, who was the bane of everyone's existence. Not because he was a terrorizing mechanical shark, but because he never worked. As, as the story goes. Yeah, do.

Did you know the shark was nicknamed Bruce?

Daniel Blackaby (01:04:57.127)
Is it because it was lawyer? Is that the...

Eli Price (01:05:00.314)
Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. Like, cause, um, from what I read, like his lawyer is like a really nice guy. So I don't really understand why Spielberg nicknamed it after his lawyer. Um, and, uh, and, and I think in the, the documentary Roy Scheider was like, I refused to call it Bruce, uh, I guess cause he knew Spielberg's lawyer. Um, but, um,

But that got me to thinking like, is the shark in Finding Nemo named Bruce like after the Jaws shark?

Daniel Blackaby (01:05:33.255)
Yes, that I knew there was a cartoon. I don't know if it was Shark Tale or Nemo or I know there was a shark called Bruce. It's gotta be. It's gotta be because of draws.

Eli Price (01:05:38.682)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I have to imagine that they definitely named the Finding Nemo shark after the Jaws shark, which is fun to think about that extended universe of the shark that doesn't eat fish and Finding Nemo, maybe becoming later on the shark in Jaws.

Daniel Blackaby (01:06:05.703)
Yeah, he finally got a taste of people when he changed his tune.

Eli Price (01:06:11.002)
Yeah. Um, but yeah, the John Alves was the, um, the production designer and, um, he, uh, he was kind of like the head guy for the shark, but he, he had a lot of people working with him on it. Um, Bob may, Bob Maddy was one of the main people who apparently came out of retirement to help. And, um, he's a parent. I don't, I don't.

Even know that I should have looked up a picture of this or footage of it, but the giant squid and 20 ,000 leagues under the sea is something that this guy made. Uh, and I should have looked it up. I just didn't think about it. Um, so I don't know if it like looks cool or not, to be honest. Um,

Daniel Blackaby (01:06:55.943)
I know I've seen the movie, but that's a long time ago.

Eli Price (01:06:59.546)
Yeah. Uh, but yeah, so he helped with the shark. He, um, he had the idea to like attach the model to the mechanical arm. Um, so they built this, you know, rig with the shark on it. Um, and I think it weighed like 12 tons, which is super heavy for, uh, for something you're going to be like using in the ocean. And they had like, um, different iterations of it. Like they had a.

Sorry. They had like a full size version, which like is self -explanatory. It's the whole shark. And then they had like a left version and a right version where like the other side was like hollowed out so that they could like get in there and like do like fix the like tubes and stuff if they needed to really easily. And then of course, like they had like just the fin for all that stuff. But, um,

Yeah, it's really like, really like intricate, like nylon and neoprene foam, like steel frame and all this stuff. And then they use like a pneumatic system, which I guess is like using like pressurized air instead of using a hydraulic system because they didn't want like the chance of getting oil or something leaking in the ocean. So.

So they use the pressurized air. So there's all these tubes going into the different parts of the shark to make it wriggle around and stuff and shift back and forth, which is when you see the making of a... Have you ever been to the Jaws ride at Universal and part of it? Yeah. So when you see it in person and then also when you're watching it move out of the water.

Daniel Blackaby (01:08:50.599)
Yeah.

Eli Price (01:08:59.578)
in the making of like, it takes away like all of the scariness. But yeah, it's, I've also seen Spielberg like being interviewed like at Universal, like across from the Jaws ride, like going on in the background. And he's like, it's, it's worked better here than it ever worked for me at Martha's Vineyard.

Daniel Blackaby (01:09:21.607)
I'm going to go ahead and close the video.

Eli Price (01:09:26.586)
But yeah, they didn't even test it until they dry tested it in LA where they built it and then shipped it across the country to Martha's Vineyard and never like tested it in the water until they got there ready to shoot. And it didn't work. Dreyfus talks about how like they had these radios like all over that, you know, they communicated with and he said it was just like,

Constant over the radio like the shark isn't working. The shark isn't working And yeah, he I Think it was I think what I read was that it they didn't get it to like Work properly like to get it to pop out of the water until September so, I mean that's like Two months of being out on the ocean like shooting every day

before you finally get the shark to work like you want it to, which is just wild. But the pain that the shark was, I think, ended up being the biggest strength of the movie, which is you only see the shark when it really matters. But yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (01:10:46.759)
Because I think, what is it, like four minutes? I think as far as screen time of the shark, I think it comes out to like four minutes or something of total screen time, which is.

Eli Price (01:11:01.818)
Wow, I would have guessed more than that, but I guess it makes sense. Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (01:11:06.215)
Because you see it briefly pop up. And I think I've seen that. You see the barrels and stuff. But it's really only till the end, when he's on the boat, that you see him. And that might not be. That just seems to be the common. I haven't counted it. But four minutes is what comes up most often if you look up on the.

Eli Price (01:11:13.432)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, fully.

Eli Price (01:11:25.306)
Yeah.

Yeah, that's one of those things where like nine out of like 9 .9 out of 10 people are going to like guess way more than that. Um, as far as minutes go, like it feels like something you would just have to know to be able to guess that low of a time for the shark in the movie jaws actually being on screen. Um, but yeah, that, that makes sense.

Daniel Blackaby (01:11:43.397)
Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (01:11:51.079)
Because I'm curious to you because like you always hear from that that like You know because the shark didn't work then they didn't show it and I think that's become even at the template just for like all monster movies now it's just you know, you hide the monster and that sort of the thing I Like I know some of it must have been improvised But I wonder how different it would be I've always wondered how much Spielberg was ever gonna

Eli Price (01:12:00.408)
Mm -hmm.

Eli Price (01:12:04.45)
Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Daniel Blackaby (01:12:17.543)
Because so much of what works in the movie is the suggestive, the visuals, and some of those clever ways he communicates it. I feel like he probably still would have done a lot of that. But you just sort of wonder what the vision would have been. I haven't seen early scripts or anything. Was the shark ever going to be very prominent? Or how much did he do?

Eli Price (01:12:21.498)
Yeah.

Eli Price (01:12:29.4)
Yeah.

Eli Price (01:12:33.946)
Mm -hmm.

Eli Price (01:12:40.122)
Yeah. Yeah, that's a good question because one of the things that like I took away from like watching this and like then hearing about, you know, all the stuff about the movie reading is that Spielberg really like this early on in his career, you know, his third feature.

Well, his, his only his, uh, second, like theatrical released feature, um, like already seemed to have a really good handle on like what was needed in the movie and what wasn't. Um, and so I almost wonder if like, he would have made the movie with more shark, but then ended up cutting out like all the, all the extra like shark scenes because.

He really did seem like he knew exactly like what this film needed and what it didn't, um, like with what he took out from the book, like from the original, like write up and what he added. And then even like things that he added that he ended up not doing because it would have been redundant or, um, you know, you hear him talk about like several things where he was like, well, I feel like, um, I had this idea, but it felt like it would have been a bit too out of taste.

as far as like violence goes. Um, so it just seems like he had a really good handle on what the story needed to like be what it is. So I almost wonder if he would have like made a different movie, but then like cut it, cut it up so that it didn't have too much shark in it. I don't know.

Daniel Blackaby (01:14:26.247)
Yeah, because it's almost like a lot of the more modern monster creature movies, like the King Kong, Godzilla type movies, they're so spectacle and they're so, I just can't imagine, they're sort of the antithesis of what Jaws is, more the building tension, I guess more just here's a monster, or even just the Jurassic Park movies post Spielberg are a lot more to show the creature, have them a lot of spectacle. And I just have a hard time.

Eli Price (01:14:32.568)
Mm -hmm.

Eli Price (01:14:36.314)
Yeah.

Eli Price (01:14:48.666)
Mm -hmm.

Daniel Blackaby (01:14:54.631)
I mean, I guess Lost World kind of does that, but hard time picturing Spielberg making that kind of movie. I mean, it might have been more shark, I guess, if he could. But I can't imagine it just losing some of those elements that I, you know, like I feel like there's genius. Yeah, I feel like there's sort of genius stuff going on beyond just like necessity. I think Spielberg also just.

Eli Price (01:14:57.178)
Mm -hmm.

Eli Price (01:15:03.162)
Yeah.

Eli Price (01:15:06.874)
Yeah.

Eli Price (01:15:13.146)
Yeah, like the POV of the shark and stuff. Like there's a ton of like...

Eli Price (01:15:21.944)
Mm -hmm.

Daniel Blackaby (01:15:24.259)
knows how to build tension without just sort of shoving a monster into the screen.

Eli Price (01:15:28.026)
Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, uh, so have you seen, have you ever seen dual? Which was his TV, first TV movie.

Daniel Blackaby (01:15:35.143)
No, I don't even know that that existed until you mentioned it.

Eli Price (01:15:40.506)
Yeah. So it is, um, yeah, it's this, you know, and you can go back and, uh, you know, if you're listening to this and you're like, Oh, I'm interested in that. Um, I did an episode on that, um, as well that is already out there, but it, um, it's basically like this guy that's just on his way to like a business meeting, kind of driving through. It feels like, uh, I think it's like San Fernando Valley, California. So like desert.

road highways and there's just this giant tanker truck that is like terrorizing him and like keeps popping up and like trying to run them off the road. Um, and the tanker truck is in there a lot, but he does keep the tension up. But at the same time, it's like the tanker truck is the actual like tanker truck with a stunt driver in it. It's not a like fairly fake looking mechanical shark. So.

So it's kind of like, it's not exactly the same, but also like he did like use tension and like suspense really well with having that, the tanker trunk, the way he used the tanker truck, like popping up all through the movie. Um, so yeah, it dual is definitely worth, um, worth a, it's worth a shot and also like the, so, um,

Daniel Blackaby (01:16:59.559)
Yeah, I need to check that out. I didn't know that.

Eli Price (01:17:06.586)
There's a sound, I won't spoil it for you or our listeners, but there's a sound used toward the end of, and maybe using context clues, you can figure out what the spoil is. But there's a sound used at the end of dual that he uses as the shark is sinking when they finally kill the shark at the end of Jaws. And it's like this.

dinosaur roar, almost Godzilla -esque kind of sound. That kind of happens as the shark is sinking. You kind of hear this like...

Uh, and, uh, he used it. It's, it's kind of like an homage to dual, um, kind of his like thanks to dual for like kind of kicking off his, you know, feature filmmaking career. Um, cause he used that at the end of dual as well. So, um, which I thought was like, like a cool little, um, I guess like a little thing for himself, a little sound for himself in the movie. Um,

Daniel Blackaby (01:18:09.223)
Yeah.

Eli Price (01:18:14.138)
But it is, I think he said it's like this dinosaur sound from old, like dinosaur special or something that he, that he took. Um, but it does kind of sound like Godzilla. Um, if you listen to it, but, but yeah, that's a fun fact about that. Yeah. But yeah, that really is an interesting, like thought experiment of like, what would this have been if the shark would have worked, would have been as good of a movie, um, or maybe like a good movie, but not.

as great as it is. But you have to imagine Spielberg, I mean, even at that point in his career, just like had such an eye for how to use the camera that it still would have turned out, you know, just as good. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know what it would have been. And I think he doesn't know. Like if you watch interviews with him, he'd...

He kind of is like, I don't know what would have happened if the shark would have worked.

Daniel Blackaby (01:19:16.551)
But I feel like that's part of why the movie holds up so well. Because really until the end, when the shark jumps onto the boat, I mean, by then you're immersed enough that you go with it. But until then, it looks like an old film, but it's not like jarringly. Because when the shark's under the water, it looks like a shark. It's just sort of moving around. But it's really just the very end of the movie where it's like, OK, that's, you know.

Eli Price (01:19:20.25)
Mm -hmm.

Eli Price (01:19:35.386)
Mm -hmm.

Eli Price (01:19:41.37)
Right.

Daniel Blackaby (01:19:46.247)
If it was made today, the shark would look a little different. But because it's so hidden, the movie, I mean, it holds up. It still keeps a lot of the scares. At least to me, I'm not, I mean, maybe it's just because I saw the film when I was younger and I was already kind of scared of it. But the scares still work, even however many years later, because they sort of hide the elements that would date the film.

Eli Price (01:19:55.93)
Right.

Eli Price (01:20:07.098)
Oh yeah.

Eli Price (01:20:14.554)
Yeah. Yeah. And like you said, like by the time you get to the end where the shark, like is very visible, you're just like, you're so into it. It's like, you kind of just ignore that. Or you're not even like noticing how like fake the shark is. Cause if you really like are thinking about it and you are like, if you were to just like, go watch a YouTube clip of that, like, and be thinking about like.

the mechanical shark aspect, you'd be like, oh yeah, it's very fake looking mechanical shark. But.

Daniel Blackaby (01:20:47.751)
But it's also just such a gruesome, like the mane on the boat that you're also, it's horrifying beyond the shark needing to be scary because you know, Quinn's being chewed up and the boat's singing and there's blood coming out of his mouth. And so it sort of substitutes the scare factor because there's other things going on that you don't notice as much the fact that like it's a big rubber shark kind of flailing around and jumping out of the water.

Eli Price (01:20:51.064)
Yeah.

Eli Price (01:20:58.778)
right. The boat's sinking and yeah. Yeah.

Eli Price (01:21:15.77)
Oh yeah. And Quint like, Shaw like really sells it for that part. Like he, I watched like the, if you watch it like in the making of documentary, they like show him doing that scene. And it's kind of like, it's strange to watch it like not in the movie. Cause he's just like scrambling around and screaming at the top of his lungs and like spitting out like the fake blood.

And, um, and I want to say, if my memory serves me correct, like when he spit out the S like the fake blood, um, after a second, you can like kind of hear some, I guess, crew members like laughing. Um, I guess like laughing at the bullet, like the, but yeah, it, he, he sells it. It's terrifying to watch, to watch the shark. Like,

chew him up basically in that scene. Yeah, I guess like kind of moving through the rest of production. The other like cool stunt thing I thought was the first kill with Chrissy. And they had like these cables hooked up to her.

Under the w like, so for the very last part where she's like getting like pulled around by the shark, um, they had like cables hooked up to her and she was, she seemed like she was a really like smart stunt woman because she had all these, like, she was talking about all these like precautions they took and, um, she wanted real people to be pulling her, not like cranes because, um, then she felt like she was more control cause she's in the water.

She had these special clips that she could pull off any time she needed. Just like all these precautions, I was like, oh, I would have never thought about any of that stuff. But yeah, they had basically these long cables going to shore. And they had markers where the people pulling the cables would run from this marker to this marker, and then back to this marker, basically pulling her around.

Daniel Blackaby (01:23:21.447)
You

Eli Price (01:23:42.554)
the way they had it mapped out. So I thought that was like a really cool kind of like how they made it kind of section, uh, kind of, I guess, trivia. Um, but yeah, it, it, uh, it works really well that scene, I think. Um,

Daniel Blackaby (01:24:02.151)
Oh, it's just such an iconic opening. This is such a... I think it's just an effective one. It gets immediate. It gets so jarring. And I feel like it goes... It's long enough to be unsettling, but it doesn't go on and on to the point that it's just almost off -putting. I guess gets horrific. And then it's like the calm beach scene. And then you're just kind of for the rest of the movie, you're just...

Eli Price (01:24:04.792)
Yeah.

Eli Price (01:24:16.154)
Hmm.

Eli Price (01:24:26.042)
Oh yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (01:24:30.503)
kind of on edge a bit from, from just sort of that, which I've seen some quotes about, like that was totally his Spielberg, you know, I forget what the quote was, but just sort of like, you know, he went and told her, like, he wants this to be, you know, unsettled audiences for the rest of this film.

Eli Price (01:24:32.538)
Oh yeah.

Eli Price (01:24:38.554)
Mm -hmm.

Eli Price (01:24:46.97)
Oh yeah. I can. So, uh, I think I had told you this before we started recording, but, um, my parents, I was asking my parents cause I know they saw it in theaters. Um, and my dad was 11 when this came out and my mom was nine and they both saw this movie in theaters. Um, and I can just only imagine being like nine years old or, um, even like 11 years old, uh, and.

see, seeing, coming, coming into this movie and this, that being like the first thing you see is like this, this girl getting like, you know, you're not, I guess you're not technically seeing her get ripped to pieces, but you're imagining it. Um, her getting ripped to pieces under the water by the shark. Um, yeah, I think my mom too said she was chewing gum and, uh, she like screamed at one point and like,

got gum, her gum all on her hair and had to like cut the gum out of her hair after when they got home. Um, but yeah, I just can't imagine being like nine years old and go into see Jaws and theaters, but it was rated PG.

Daniel Blackaby (01:26:01.487)
Which is, yeah, it's crazy.

Eli Price (01:26:03.706)
They, Spielberg said that it was gonna be rated R, but there was this one section that the board was like, hey, I think it's when the guy, his leg falls to the bottom of the ocean floor, and it shows his severed leg falling down. There was like, it used to linger on that longer and watch it kind of bounce around.

at the bottom of the ocean floor. I don't know how much longer, but Steven said like, all he did was like cut some of that out and they moved it from R to PG. Which is just like, all right. And it, yeah, it led to my parents being like terrorized in theaters as kids. So.

I guess it, I guess it was good for, for business to, to knock it down to PG. Uh, but yeah, they didn't have the PG 13 back then. So it was like, Jump from straight from PG to R. Um, and yeah, when you, when you go back and watch a lot of PG movies from back then, you're like, this would definitely be PG 13 today or are even some of them. Um, but yeah, one of the,

Daniel Blackaby (01:27:17.607)
This one. Yeah.

Eli Price (01:27:26.138)
cool things with the camera was the cinematographer, Bill Butler, built this like a box, this like glass box for the camera because Spielberg wanted a lot of shots like at water view. So you kind of have like water lapping up and he wanted it to be like kind of a very human view. Cause he said that a lot of, a lot of times, like when you see the ocean and movies, it's like this like.

really big wide shot and like, or it's like, he was basically like, you don't get the point of view of like a human, like when you're in the water very often in movies. And so, yeah, they built this little box and I think he said it's like 25 % of the movie about his shot in that little glass box that they built. Um, which when you think about it, there is a lot of like those shots where the water is kind of like passing in front of the camera and, um,

You know, you think of like the chaos of like the 4th of July stampede out of the water. Um, and yeah, it's, it's, I thought that was a really smart choice for sure. Um, but yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (01:28:37.511)
Well, it's so effective too, because especially for that scene you mentioned, because even just the water hitting the camera does transport you. You're in the water with all these people. That point of view, there is some almost more tactile of interacting with the, as all these people are freaking out, you're in the water, you're one of this crowd that needs to get out.

Eli Price (01:28:48.762)
Yeah.

Eli Price (01:28:59.93)
Yeah.

Eli Price (01:29:03.706)
Oh yeah. Yeah. It's kind of, um, it's kind of one of those things. It's like, do not watch if you're like claustrophobic or, or whatever, you know, whatever the phobia is of the ocean, like do not watch, um, especially these scenes where it feels like you're in the water. Um, but yeah, overall, you know, as we can all guess, filming at sea was a nightmare for them. Um, all these things like that you wouldn't think about. So.

just like the way that like the tide will like shift boats around because a lot of times they're like on one boat or the barge that they had like all the equipment in and you're shooting like the Orca. Well, if you have to wait for something to line up by the time something gets just right, the boats have like shifted in the tide. And so now you have to wait like this, just the boats back into alignment.

They talked about how there would be these cell boats on the horizon and they would have to wait for the cell boat to like cross out of like the shot that they're doing. And it could be like an hour and a half or something. And Spielberg said they would like do calculations and be like, okay, if we flip everything around, get the barge on this side of the boat, flip the boat around so we get the other horizon for this shot. Well, then it's like an hour and an hour and a half.

So we might as well just sit here and wait for the sailboat to pass our horizon shot. So just all kinds of stuff. That just like was a nightmare for shooting. They obviously couldn't use tripods because it would have been like it would have given everyone watching seasickness in the theater. So they had to like do like shoulder held handheld.

for the cameras so that they could kind of like, I don't know, you know, stabilize with, I guess, like bending their knees, I would assume. They didn't have like, they didn't have the like specialized rigs that some people were able to use today to like get smooth shots on the water.

Daniel Blackaby (01:31:18.471)
Because even now, you hear filming ocean stuff is still a nightmare. I get still directors and stuff like this. It's not worth the hassle. So like 50 years ago, doing that without all the equipment and things, man, this technically, that's a challenge.

Eli Price (01:31:23.61)
Mm -hmm.

Eli Price (01:31:27.258)
Yeah.

Eli Price (01:31:32.41)
Mm -hmm, even worse.

Yeah.

Eli Price (01:31:39.258)
I want to say that, um, it was the first like feature film shot on the, like on the ocean. I think I read that somewhere. Um, you know, maybe some, maybe a listener will fact check me and be like, no, you're wrong. And you can just email me and tell me that's, that's the case, you know, establishing shot pod at gmail .com. You can tell me things that I've gotten wrong. Um, but, uh, but yeah, I want to say it's the.

like was the first feature film that had actual shot in the ocean stuff. But yeah, even like I did an episode on Dunkirk for the Christopher Nolan series and they built these new specialized kind of crane rig things that basically keep the camera smooth. So, um.

You can have like a boat running alongside the boat that you're shooting, but the picture like looks like smooth, um, really like cool technology, but they like developed that for that movie. Um, so like it wasn't out there for them to like, Oh, let's use this. They were like, Oh, we want to, we have, we're to have to like make this. And that was in what? 2016, uh, something like that, uh, that they made that movie.

So yeah, you know, even like up until recently, you don't have technology to like shoot smoothly on the water. Yeah. All kinds of stuff went wrong out there. At one point, like the orca like was sinking. They had like, um, they were doing something with the barrels and like part of the boat got ripped off or something and it just started sinking. They were trying to like get the orca, uh, to shore.

Um, just like all kinds of stuff was just went wrong out there. And, um, uh, one, one of the things I thought was funny was at one point later on in production, um, they were just also exhausted and like, just full of like anxiety and whatever that, um, Roy Scheider at a dinner one night just started, uh, decided he was going to start a food fight to like loosen everyone up.

Eli Price (01:34:06.81)
And they had this like big food fight and Spielberg was like, Oh, and one of the crew like jumped into the pool that was like full of like floating food from the food fight. And I was like, what the heck? And I jumped into and, and I was like, Oh, you've got to imagine like they needed stuff like that to happen every once in a while to like ease the tension. Um, but yeah, they, um, the Spielberg actually wasn't there for the final shot of the movie. So.

They had like the big explosion of the shark. Um, well, it's kind of like the last thing they shot and Spielberg left. He went ahead and like left, um, early before they, they did that, uh, partly because he was just like exhausted and like really like dealing with anxiety and stuff, but also because he heard that his crew that.

half hated him because of because they went 100 days over schedule out on the ocean. We're planning on like pranking him and like throwing him off the ship and stuff. And so he was like, I don't want to have any part of that. So I'm out of here. But but he had like a full bomb. Like he talks about having like a full blown panic attack when he got to his hotel room in Boston, which is just like.

kind of sad to hear. Um, but I want to say he, he said he went like down to the bar and dry fist was happened to be down there and like, kind of like talked him down a little bit. And, but he said he like had like bad anxiety for like months after finishing this film. Um, which is like, like, I guess it kind of sucks to hear that. Um, but, um,

But you know, it was just, it was a hard, it was a hard like time. He's a young guy. Like he doesn't have like, yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (01:36:07.367)
Well, just the pressure too. Like, you know, all these, like everything going wrong is like fun now, you know, and it's like, Oh, I've kept with this thing. But like to be that young, like he's probably one of the youngest people on sets, like for, you know, and he's inexperienced and just, and just the pressure building out and you can't really just stop. Like you gotta keep moving, pressing forward. Then I'm sure just by the end, like you'd just be just worn down from.

Eli Price (01:36:12.216)
Mm -hmm. Right.

Eli Price (01:36:21.626)
Yeah.

Eli Price (01:36:30.266)
Mm -hmm.

Eli Price (01:36:37.242)
Yeah. Yeah. The producers even talked about in the, in the documentary, they were saying like, there were times where Steven was like wanting to maybe quit or like take a break. And we, we didn't let them because they had the experience to know, like, if you stop, then chances are like, you're not good. They're not going to let you finish the movie. If you stop, um, you just have to keep shooting. So, so they did, they, they kept shooting, but.

Daniel Blackaby (01:36:57.159)
Yeah, you're right.

Eli Price (01:37:07.108)
Um, one of the last things that happened was, um, obviously they had to reshoot the, you know, the stuff with Hooper being alive at the end, but also, um, Spielberg like really wanted to add another scare shot. He, he, I think they had done some screenings even. Um, and the big scare was like when the shark.

first pops out when Scheider's like doing the chumming. And I think Spielberg in the interview was talking about he had planned it out so well for that to be a good scare because there's a laugh moment right before the shark pops out. So you let your guard down. Like he said at that time, the S word like wasn't used a whole lot in film. And so whenever you would use it, it would get like.

this rebellious laugh from young people and this kind of nervous laughter from, from the older crowd. And so he's like, uh, you come down here and chum this, you know, and, uh, he's doing it. And so he said that got a laugh at the screening, like a really good laugh. And then the shark pops up like right after that, cause people's guard were like down. It was like screams and everything. Um, and it got him like itching for another scare. And, uh, he.

He went back and wanted to do the corpse, like the Ben Gardner corpse popping out of the hole. And they were like, no, no, we're not letting you shoot anymore. Like you were a hundred days over schedule and over budget, you know, you're not shooting anymore. And so he actually like took like, I want to say $3 ,000 of his own money and went and got some shots for that scene and kind of tested it on with his editors.

like the editing crew to see what shot worked best. And, um, and yeah, that made it in the movie. Um, and I'm sure he very quickly made this $3 ,000 back. Um, but, uh, but, but he, one of the other things that goes with that is he said, he learned something from that because that happens pretty early in the movie, um, relative to like all the shark stuff later on.

Daniel Blackaby (01:39:11.399)
You

Eli Price (01:39:29.914)
Um, you know, the, the head pops out and he said, it got a lot of good screams. He said, but he noticed that for the, the, like the chum scare that happens later on, it didn't get as many screams and like later screenings. Once that other scene, uh, was added in and he said, he learned that once you scare the audience, then they're like on guard. So, um, so he just kind of learned like, to be strategic about like.

when and how like he scares the audience so that like, they're not like too on guard for like scares later in the movie or whatever. I thought that was a really cool like insight that he, you know, I guess like as a filmmaker, you're always trying to like learn from like what you do and paying attention to like what works and what doesn't work. Um,

Daniel Blackaby (01:40:23.911)
Well, there's a, I don't know if you've heard of, um, I guess for the people watching the video version, if you've ever heard of this, it's a new book. You are what you watch. Um, the disc came out, but it's like a data scientist and he just sort of talks about how movies impact you. And, and one of the things he discusses in it is he talks about draws and I forget all the details of the experiment, but he like hooked himself up with things that was like measuring his skin and like, you know, like how he reacts to.

Eli Price (01:40:34.68)
Mm -hmm.

Eli Price (01:40:41.592)
Hmm.

Daniel Blackaby (01:40:53.671)
to scares and things and then watch Jaws. And then in the book he has like that little graph, but it's like it's the, when things kind of spike and then go down and they're like almost perfectly spaced all throughout Jaws, like the, where he gets you up in a high and then gives you just enough time to kind of come down and like let your guard down. And then he hits you with something else. And then he, like there's not a whole bunch, you know, one after another and it's.

Eli Price (01:41:09.306)
Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (01:41:23.227)
I don't know how intentional he was with that, but it does seem like he has a good sense of the flow of you get scared and then you sort of settle in. There's some character stuff and some humor and then he hits you again. You're not on edge enough that you're just waiting for it, but there's always something coming.

Eli Price (01:41:37.21)
Mm -hmm.

Eli Price (01:41:43.802)
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And there are a lot of laughs in this movie. Um, you know, there's a lot. Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (01:41:49.383)
Oh, it's hilarious. It gets it's like underrated for just like humor, like the like Hooper, like, you know, when Quentin squeezes like the beer and then squeezes like his styrofoam cup or like, you know, even just some of the delivery of like, Brody, like, are you rich? Like, yeah, you know, I'm rich. Like this, the way they say things that like, there's there's a lot of funny moments, like it's, it's really not like, oh, it gets horrific. It's like a horror movie thriller.

Eli Price (01:41:55.226)
Yeah.

Eli Price (01:42:01.914)
Yeah, yeah.

Eli Price (01:42:10.168)
Yeah.

Eli Price (01:42:18.682)
Mm -hmm.

Daniel Blackaby (01:42:19.655)
But it has a lot of adventure vibes and fun. It's not just a scary movie. There's some funny stuff in this.

Eli Price (01:42:30.458)
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, and that does for sure help with like letting your guard down again to be scared again. Um, yeah, I would have to imagine like he was, he was pretty like strategic with that. Um, just because it, it seems like he's pretty like, he can, especially like reading about how he made dual and the way he like,

meticulously planned out all of the shooting and stuff. I would have to imagine he... This is probably the most out of sequence shot movie and ad -libbed movie he made. But I'm sure there was still a lot, because you have to edit it together. And I know he was very involved with Verna Field's, the editor, in putting everything together.

So I would have to imagine like he was pretty strategic about all that stuff.

Daniel Blackaby (01:43:28.759)
He was pretty strategic about LLS.

Eli Price (00:02.174)
Yeah, it, it of course went, you know, way over budget, way over scheduled. Um, and, uh, I want to say I heard somewhere too, that it was originally supposed to be released like December of 74, um, and obviously that was going to be hard to do because of how over schedule it was, uh, with production. And so, um, I guess that's an, maybe that's another happy accident. Like.

That it started, it basically like began the summer blockbuster because it went over, over schedule and they had to release it in the summer of 75 instead of December of 74. Um, but yeah, it was really, um, too kind of unprecedented the way they released it. Um, so they used, used to always release movies like slowly, like

into a few theaters, then more and more like each subsequent weekend. Um, but they released this one into over 400 theaters, like immediately. Um, the, the very first weekend. And they did like this big TV ad campaign for three days leading up to it. Um, where they spent like, it was thousands then, but I

I want to say it was like the equivalent of like $3 million today. Um, and TV ads like leading up to the release. Um, and yeah, it just, it came out and it just blew up. Um, everyone went to go see it. I think, I think in 1975, like 67 million people saw Jaws and theaters. Um, and it made, um, it was the first.

film to ever top a hundred million dollars in the block box office. It passed up. Um, I think the Godfather was the top at the time when it came out. Um, and, uh, there was like this marketing ad campaign, like you can look up pictures of it, um, where like, it was keeping track of all the movies it was passing in the box office. And it was like a shark, like eating, eating the next movie and how much it made like is like.

Daniel Blackaby (02:19.725)
Okay.

Eli Price (02:23.942)
And so, you know, the last one was like the Godfather 80 something million and the shocks like eating it, um, when it finally passed it. And, uh, yeah, it's just wild to think about. I think it, I think it ended the year with like $260 million, maybe domestically. Um, but it eventually worldwide made almost $500 million. Um, and I think it stayed like at the top for awhile. Um,

I want to say, I'm not sure if Star Wars might have passed it when Star Wars came out.

Daniel Blackaby (02:57.876)
I think Star Wars did. I know there's like a picture or a card or something that they, I think Spielberg sent Lucas or whatever. And it's like C-3PO fishing out Jaws or something like that to commemorate that they passed the. Is there any? I don't know. I haven't seen, like obviously while they were making it, it was up in the air. But before it came out.

Eli Price (03:04.48)
Yeah.

Eli Price (03:07.872)
Uh-huh.

Eli Price (03:11.725)
Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (03:26.944)
Were they confident? Did they have a sense that now that the movie's out, I didn't like, we got a good thing here? Or was it like, let's help people? Oh.

Eli Price (03:31.191)
No.

Eli Price (03:34.858)
No. Yeah, if you watch, if you watch like the making of, so do you have it on, do you happen to have like a physical copy of it? So I don't know if it has it on yours, but on the Blu-ray that I got, it has the whole like two hour making of, making of Jaws documentary. And so if you watch that, you know, obviously towards the end of the documentary, you know, they're talking about the release.

Daniel Blackaby (03:45.559)
Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (03:55.966)
Oh, wow. Yeah.

Eli Price (04:05.11)
And, um, the, the producers and like dry fists and like several others talk about how like they went to like a premiere or whatever, and they were just like, so, so surprised, like how like dry. Fiss says, like it got like a standing ovation when it ended. And then like people sat back down and watched all the credits and then like

Eli Price (04:35.35)
They like, I think it, Dreyfus says he like saw, I don't remember if it was Scheider or somebody like when they went out of the theater and they were just like, like we did it, like wow. So yeah, I don't think they, I think they were like probably proud of, you know, what they made, but I don't think they had any sense of like, I don't think anyone could have had any sense of a movie being this big.

Daniel Blackaby (05:04.098)
Yeah, just a phenomenon like the

Eli Price (05:05.822)
Yeah. I mean, to like, not only be like, I mean, it is like the first summer blockbuster. There's, there's not really any, I don't think there's any like contention on what was the first summer blockbuster. Like it was Jaws. And yeah, I don't think, I mean, there was no precedent for that. So.

Yeah, I would have to say they were probably just all blown away. Um, and, uh, you know, Spielberg included, um, which Spielberg seems like. He's you, like when you watch him and interviews, he's, he's got this like, really like well-balanced mixed of like humility and confidence. Like he knows he's good at what he does. And he talks like.

confidently about what he does, but he also like doesn't interprety like

like well managed humble way too. So I don't know, maybe Spielberg had a sense of like, this is really good. But again, like even him, like there's no way he would have like imagined this, you know.

Eli Price (06:27.394)
But yeah, it did have.

It had like the, you know, it had the cultural aspect too of like people were scared to go in the ocean after watching jaws. Um, and I think at one point in the documentary, Gottlieb says, uh, that like when they were like writing it and making it, he was like, Oh, I think this might do the same thing for the ocean that psycho did for showers. Um, which is, which was a funny line to me, but, um, but yeah, I mean it did. Like.

Even more so like people were like not going in swimming in the ocean anymore. Um, and it feels like by the time, like my parents who saw it as kids, like were taking me as a kid to the ocean, it was like basically like a no-no to go out like too far into the ocean. Um, I don't know if you had like that experience as a, as a kid or whatever, but yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (07:28.028)
I don't know if we have that, but even like Shark Week, even like 50 years later, it's like they're still trying to combat these narratives and fears. I mean, sharks are scary, but this sort of man, it's almost like a serial killer in the water. It's like they're trying to combat this. It's like 50 years later, and it's just like it so took root of just sort of this fear of these creatures in the ocean.

Eli Price (07:32.459)
Yeah.

Eli Price (07:37.774)
Hehehe, yeah. Right.

Eli Price (07:45.186)
Yeah.

Eli Price (07:49.43)
Yeah.

Eli Price (07:55.954)
Oh yeah, for sure. It went on to win three Oscars. It won for sound, for editing, and for, of course, the music for the score, original score by John Williams. It did not win Best Picture. It was nominated. Spielberg was a little upset that he didn't get the director nomination. I've read that he was kind of like,

He had like some harsh feelings about not getting nominated for director for this movie, which I mean, I guess like, to be honest, like it's probably he has the right to be because it's so well directed. I don't remember who won director, but I do know one flew over the Cuckoo's Nest one best picture, which I haven't seen.

Daniel Blackaby (08:41.648)
Because what did when you know off the top of your head.

Daniel Blackaby (08:53.764)
I haven't seen either, so. But I bet John is better.

Eli Price (08:55.41)
So I don't. Yeah. Yeah, it's hard to imagine anything being better than Jaws that year. I'm sure there were there were other like worthy movies. And from what I hear, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest is a really good movie. But yeah, I haven't seen it. So cannot confirm or deny. I know another fun fact was Jaws was the first.

printed laser disc. So when laser disc came out, Jaws was like the first one they like produced to like market and release. Which makes sense because like people kept going to see it in theaters so they probably are going to buy, want to buy the laser disc to keep watching it over and over at home. And then the other like fun fact about its release that I put down was that in 1979...

It aired on ABC for the first time and it garnered 57% of the TV audience, which is, which is crazy. Um, like no, nothing does that. Uh, obviously like you can't really get stats like that today because people, you know, it's a TV audience, like cable or satellite is not really a thing anymore. Um, so they're, you know, they're.

Daniel Blackaby (10:03.612)
Thank you.

Daniel Blackaby (10:16.633)
Yeah.

Eli Price (10:23.562)
You can't really get a modern day equivalent of that. Or it would be hard to. But yeah, 57% is crazy. I feel like I don't know what normal numbers were like, but I would have to imagine there. It's very far from that many. But yeah, I think the big thing is so like obviously there were a lot of.

Daniel Blackaby (10:38.68)
not 57%.

Eli Price (10:52.318)
A lot of critics that praised the movie and Spielberg had gained the favor of critics just with his directorial choices and camera work. Critics all the way back to Duel had appreciated him, even if they didn't necessarily like Duel. He had a couple other TV movies or Sugarland Express, which was his first theatrical release. They appreciated his directing choices.

So yeah, he you know, he got a lot of praise but there were also like a lot of critics that were kind of like very wary of this movie And it does have to do with it kind of being the father of summer blockbusters So like I think the You know at this time and like the late 60s and early 70s there were all these like it was kind of like the new way like

the new wave of Hollywood. It was like all these like important, um, like meaningful movies that were coming out. Um, you know, I think the penultimate one you can think of is like the Godfather. It's like this very artistic and like movie that's packed with like meaning and gravitas and drama. Um, and there was, it was like a, there was like a wave of

a movement of these movies and critics were like really excited because these are the kinds of movies that the critics love, but also like the general public is starting to like get into these movies too. Um, and so here comes jaws, which is like, just this like suspense field, like, um, like shark action movie. Um, and a lot of these critics, uh, you know, I don't know like what the

portion would have been, it's hard to gain a sense of that, like not being there at the time. Um, but like from some of the reading I've done, there were a decent amount of critics that were like, kind of like upset with Jaws because it was like, they felt like it was a regression from the advancement of like the late sixties and early seventies of the types of movies we were getting. Um.

Daniel Blackaby (13:17.328)
Do you think it would be almost like the equivalent of, I mean, different situation, but the way that the MCU now or something like that, or this idea that this is sort of the popular masses thing and it's still in a way, it's sort of steering things in a direction away from like cinema.

Eli Price (13:17.346)
Which is a-

Eli Price (13:24.459)
Yeah.

Eli Price (13:30.466)
Yeah.

Eli Price (13:36.478)
Yeah. Cinema with a capital C. Right. Um, yeah. And that was the question. Like, was this at the time, like, was this good or bad for movies? Um, like, I guess, like, yeah, I guess you could say for cinema with a capital C, was this good or bad for it? Um, and, and I mean, if you think about it, like,

Daniel Blackaby (13:39.139)
Yeah.

Eli Price (14:02.41)
It's the first summer blockbuster. The next, the very next year you have Rocky, um, another huge summer blockbuster. The very next year after that you have star wars. Um, and the, like that succession of like movies, like really kicks off this like summer blockbuster thing that. It, like you said, eventually turns into this big, like franchise, um, built like movie building industry, basically. Um, and.

You know, I think in hindsight, it is an interesting question to ask. Like, was the big summer blockbuster like.

Was it good or bad for movies? I kind of, I kind of feel like in the middle of the fence, like I think it was both, you know, um, because you do have the kind of franchise results that were all kind of, we all kind of seem to be tired of at this point. Like, can we make something like new and fresh and original instead of like rehashing another like superhero universe?

Um, and I really do think even like the biggest, like MCU fans are starting to feel a little bit like that. That's kind of the, that's kind of like what it feels like in the conversation, you know, when you talk to people about it. But, um, I don't know, do you, do you have any thoughts on like what this did for movies, like, was it good? Was it bad? A little bit of both.

Daniel Blackaby (15:37.42)
Yeah, because in some ways you feel like it was almost inevitable. Like sort of the summer blockbuster was going to be a thing. And at some point it was going to sort of become almost a bit more corporate. Or, but yeah, cause it's sort of like, it's, it did start that, but it gets also such a quality, I feel like the issue with a lot of like

Eli Price (15:41.687)
Mm-hmm.

Eli Price (15:49.355)
Yeah, maybe so, yeah.

Eli Price (16:00.939)
Yeah.

It's something different, ew.

Daniel Blackaby (16:05.7)
kind of the issue with a lot of more recent of these sort of the ones that make us tired of some of our blockbusters is they just don't have the same level of like quality like the, you know, like you were saying, like this is the way the structure, composer, the acting, like all this stuff. It does feel a bit more like, I guess, is, you know, like a McDonald's-esque of, not that the people involved aren't talented and, you know, obviously tons of effort goes into these movies.

Eli Price (16:16.556)
Right.

Eli Price (16:20.558)
Uh-uh.

Eli Price (16:28.941)
Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (16:35.512)
But it's just there's so much of it and it's happening so quick. And there's just more movies that, I don't know, maybe it's just like this overkill. But yeah, it is kind of crazy to think of, like, I mean, that's all I've ever known is big summer movies. It's kind of weird to think that wasn't always the case that you just got all these big massive spectacles.

Eli Price (16:50.154)
Mm-hmm.

Eli Price (16:54.903)
Right.

Yeah, every year almost. Um, yeah, I don't know. It's even at the time, like critics were kind of split. Um, again, I don't know in what proportion was it like 50, 50 or 70, 30. I don't really know. Um, but like, there were also people that were like, felt like Spielberg and Lucas were like reinvigorating Hollywood. Um, at a time where maybe it was like.

slowing down. So, you know, it's just one of those things where it's like, I'm happy we have Jaws. You know, I think that there's just like anything. So Jaws obviously like is just a really well-made movie. It's not what we think about when we think of like tired summer blockbusters like, like you were talking about. And

I just think it's like one of those things where like, there's going to be good and bad that comes of it. It's in that, like you said, kind of inevitable. Um, we're going to get some good stuff and we're going to get some like kind of junk along the way, and you just kind of got to like weed through it, you know? Um, but like thinking of last year, like, cause I was, I kind of feel similar to like what you were talking about with MCU movies of just like,

kind of like tired of the same old like store, like they're kind of the same stories over and over just with different characters and all that. But this, if you think about this past summer, like we got Barbenheimer, uh, which was a huge phenomenon, like the hugest phenomenon, uh, today, I would think, um, of summer blockbusters and.

Eli Price (18:54.134)
you know, two being released on the same day and Barbie and Oppenheimer. And we're like, really, like both of those movies are like really well made original movies that like did really well and like super well made, you know. And so I don't know, like that kind of like gives you hope for like, oh, are we going to get like more? Are we going to get a run of like Jaws Rocky Star Wars again?

Maybe, I don't know, but one can hope. One can dream, right?

Daniel Blackaby (19:26.732)
Yeah, and just the hunger for... Because even, again, Nolan and stuff, you know they want that, but to put this hunger for, almost proven like Jaws did, that people have a hunger for some of these original type, and which people have been saying for a while, but like Barbenheimer showed that, like at least for good ones, people will actually flock to the theater and go see it too, which you sort of hope leads to...

Eli Price (19:49.407)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Blackaby (19:57.012)
it being a bit more viable of like, you know, take the chance. It will make money, but.

Eli Price (20:02.686)
Right. Yeah. There's also just like the machine now is just like, how can we replicate Barbenheimer? How can we? Yeah. And it's just like, no, like just make good movies and people will like be excited. You know, obviously you have to market it. Like Barbie and Oppenheimer were both marketed really well, obviously. Um, I mean, there's no denying that, but.

Daniel Blackaby (20:12.33)
Yes.

Eli Price (20:30.262)
But Jaws was marketed really well. They did this, they invested a ton of money into marketing it. Um, so yeah, I don't know. Um, maybe just like try not to just be, you know, the success of like good movies, isn't dependent on like zeros and ones and data, like it's, it's dependent on like, is it well-made art? And do people like connect with it? And.

You can market that once it's made, but you've got to like, you've got to actually like make those movies first. But yeah, we, we did kind of talk about like how well this holds up. Um, and, and just like, one of the things that I think about with that is the filmmaking still feels so fresh. Um, like the way Spielberg moves the camera and like sets up like.

Daniel Blackaby (21:04.304)
have it.

Eli Price (21:29.986)
composes shots and where people are in them, it just still feels so fresh and energetic. Compared to some old movies, you watch it, and you can just the way it's shot, you're like, oh, this is shot really well, but you can tell it's an old movie in the way it's shot. And this feels still like it feels like someone

they made it today would have shot it in similar ways. It doesn't feel antiquated as far as the way he moves the camera and all that.

Daniel Blackaby (22:09.912)
I feel like it's such a perfect balance of, like he's doing so many interesting stuff with the camera and like, you know, this is cool shots, like going through the mouth and like kind of following the boat as it's leaving, but it never becomes distracting. Like there's enough to always keep it interesting. It's always moving, but unless you're just trying to take note of it, you don't necessarily think about the fact that he's doing a lot of cool stuff with the camera. It gets...

You're always invested in the story. But when you step back, he's not just setting the camera out there and having character say action. It's always doing, or even the famous with the Brody on the beach. I don't know how they, I forget how they accomplish that effect, but the camera pulls out, but goes close when he first is having that fear on the beach or whatever. It's cool things like that just.

Eli Price (22:49.728)
Mm-hmm.

Eli Price (23:01.399)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Well, let's talk about that sequence because I think that's a good example to talk about. Um, because one could argue like that's the best like sequence in the whole movie. Um, the way like he builds the tension and like he has like, he has this like really smart idea to make it feel like one long shot. And the way he like gets that effect is he has like people pass right in front of the camera so that you're not like making the typical, you know, jump.

cuts from one view to the next. But it feels smoother because you have that kind of swipe of someone walking in front of the camera. And when they pass by, it's closer, or you're switching from seeing Brody's face to his point of view looking out. And that's such good tension building, getting closer and closer, building the tension.

And then yeah, like the really cool, which I want to say originated with a rear window, Hitchcock's rear window, that shot where basically what they're doing is they're moving the camera away, but all in zooming in at the same time. And so it creates, yeah. So it's on a dolly and you're, you move the camera back and, and zoom in like on their face at the same time. So it creates that like stretching almost effect.

Daniel Blackaby (24:21.132)
Okay.

Eli Price (24:34.294)
that you get and it's, yeah, I'm pretty, I don't know if it was the first time it was used necessarily, but it's definitely the most famous, first time people noticed, and it really became a thing, was in Hitchcock's Ruer window. It's like at the very beginning when Jimmy Stewart is looking down, he's hanging from a building, and he looks down into the alleyway.

And it does that in the alleyway to show his fear of heights. And but yeah, it works really well here, like on Brody's face, to show the... And it is, it's a flashy artistic move, but it's just so well-timed and placed, and he's very patient leading up to it.

Yeah, it's so good. That whole sequence is so good.

Daniel Blackaby (25:35.596)
Yeah, that whole sequence, even just the way they, like the way he incorporates, like, you know, everyone arriving and just like the busyness and there's like cheerful kind of music and like, but there's this sense of like dread because as the audience, you know, danger awaits, but just the way he kind of plays with your emotions with like the music or even because like in the water, there's several shots like, you know, under the water, which he previously used for the shark.

Eli Price (25:50.85)
Mm-hmm.

Eli Price (26:02.111)
Oh yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (26:04.132)
So every time you go down there, you're like, are we the shark again? And I guess not, I guess sort of a fake out and just sort of, you just sort of keep waiting and he kind of keeps getting you to the edge and then he backs off or whatever.

Eli Price (26:07.598)
Mm-hmm. He-he-he.

Eli Price (26:16.14)
Yeah.

And I think he starts you off guard because doesn't it start off with like the shark attack video game, which is yeah, which apparently was a real game. Um, I mean, it would have had to been that they wouldn't have made that for the movie, um, but yeah, that made me like chuckle. So it like, it kind of starts you off like with a little bit of like ease. Um, and then just like builds and builds. And then even like after.

Daniel Blackaby (26:25.462)
Oh yeah, shooting the...

Eli Price (26:48.15)
After that, you have like, this may be a different point of the movie, but I'm pretty sure this is like the tracking shot where it's like following him over to the estuary where his son is. I think that's the same. Isn't that the 4th of July? Or is that another time? Yeah, yeah. So like, yeah. And then they follow and there's that like tracking shot. So like you're still like.

Daniel Blackaby (27:07.208)
Yeah, because they pull everyone out of the water and you're like, okay, nothing happened. And then they just move it over to it.

Eli Price (27:16.334)
There's like tension building, tension building, and then like a short relief, but then like he immediately starts building tension, like tracking him over like following Brody as he's going and like, he's like, oh, what's happening now? Kind of rolling his eyes and then his wife's like, our kid is in there and like, so like it's like building tension again. Just so good. It's so good.

Daniel Blackaby (27:40.824)
And even just the visual, like when he's calling everyone out of the water, he's like almost dancing red on the edge. You know, he won't even put his feet in, like, you know, sort of like, which then you contrast like to the end where he's fully submerging himself. Like the, and it's just sort of these, you know, I mean, it's obviously not super subtle, but they talked about before that about how he doesn't go in the water, but, but it's just a cool visual of like, he's the, the police and he's in charge of saving people.

Eli Price (27:43.915)
Yeah.

Eli Price (27:48.727)
Mm-hmm.

Eli Price (28:03.871)
Right.

Daniel Blackaby (28:08.612)
but he's not even getting his feet wet. He's just sort of running around and calling them in. And then.

Eli Price (28:11.55)
Yeah. Right. Yeah. And that too, that scene too is very like it's character building in that, in that way, but it's also like, it also does a lot of a lot, I think thematically with, um, the mayor and the way people react. Um, you know, the mayor basically like forces that one, like as one of this, like henchmen, I guess you could say.

Daniel Blackaby (28:37.557)
Sorry.

Eli Price (28:39.926)
to take his grandkids out into the water. And then like, yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (28:45.12)
And their faces crack me up. Like, it's just the lady. Like, she just does not want to go out there, but she sort of dutifully does.

Eli Price (28:51.69)
No. Yeah. And it's like, you know, it's doing stuff thematically in the sense of like, okay, like we're, we're not going to like talk about this, like an overdo it, but there is like that, okay, at what point is this just like capitalist greed? Like we've got to make our money. So let's put people's lives in danger so that we can like make our money sort of thing.

There's that at play too. And then the, even the panic kind of plays into that of like. Everyone, once the panic starts, like nobody is like, well, hardly anybody. You've got like the mom holding your kid and stuff, but like there's the one guy that likes snatches the rest from some kids and like, I just taken off and like, you're like somebody like, I don't know how they got everyone out safe. Like I feel like someone would have gotten.

Daniel Blackaby (29:43.514)
I'm like...

Eli Price (29:50.81)
stampeded and like drowned in that panic. Um, yeah, it's, there's a lot going on in that, in that sequence for sure. Um, and then I guess like the other.

Well, so like, I will say like two other like really stand out, like scenes for both like character building, but also like composition that I always think of are one of the scenes that I love for like Brody and his like family connection is like the his son, like mimicking him at the table. I love it. It's just it's so sweet and it's like so endearing and it does.

Daniel Blackaby (30:30.233)
Oh, that's so good, yeah.

Eli Price (30:39.058)
It's very efficient. It says so much with that short little thing about Brody, about his family, that it just communicates so much in such a small amount of time. And it's just very sweet and you just love, you kind of grow fond of Brody just by watching that scene.

Daniel Blackaby (31:06.132)
Yeah, well, it does, because it endears him. But then it also just reveals so much. A young kid has been killed and he's the chief and he could have shut down the beach. And the film never really explains if he's thinking about that. But you know that he's sort of depressed about it. Because he kind of says, you know, give me a guess why, because I need it. Like, he's struggling with that.

Eli Price (31:18.059)
Yeah.

Eli Price (31:24.782)
But you know he is.

Eli Price (31:33.014)
Right.

Daniel Blackaby (31:34.136)
And it just, it sort of makes it more, cause you don't really know the kid that gets eaten, but it makes it more like a personal, like this guy has a kid, you know, he, it could have been him, like he needs to protect, like he needs to be, I love that moment. This is sort of that quiet moment.

Eli Price (31:42.815)
Yeah, it could have been this kid, you know.

Eli Price (31:51.05)
Yeah, so good. And then I also love the billboard scene too, is very good. But the dialogue in it is very good, and kind of funny and ridiculous, the mayor's like, more worried about the vandalism, which one of the, I think one of the funniest things about the movie is there's this recurring thing about a karate class, like karate chopping.

the mayor's fence, which is just like, I don't think the kids are the problem. I think you need a new fence if kids can karate chop your fence apart. It's like, it's gotta be rotted if kids can so easily like chop it off with their hand.

Daniel Blackaby (32:39.824)
Cause that's the secretary or whatever. Cause she's like the rabid on about, it's just the most like, you almost don't even pay attention cause you're focused on Brody. But when you do, it's like, that's like, what is she talking about?

Eli Price (32:42.411)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Eli Price (32:50.625)
Uh...

Yeah, and then there's the old man too at the beach when he's trying to like watch the water that's like talking to him about the karate kids and

Daniel Blackaby (33:00.9)
I don't think I even realize that's the same and he's like already sort of trying to look over his shoulder and

Eli Price (33:02.59)
Yeah. Yeah, it's so funny. But yeah, the mayor in that scene, it's a very funny, but also, again, just playing into those themes that it's subtly, but not so subtly hitting on. But also just like.

the way he moves the camera and moves the characters around is just so, so good. Because they're constantly shifting positions in camera by the way they move around each other. And that doesn't happen by accident. It would look like a mess if they were just walking around improv'd. All that stuff has to be planned out. And that's confirmed because

they start moving and like the camera, it's just one long shot. The camera like moves and follows them and like, you get the billboard shot and they're like down there and then it like does this like low angle shot where it's like looking up at them. It's just like, he's doing so much and it's like so smooth and like it looks flawless. But like if you really like analyze that scene, there's like a ton of movement going on that has to be so like planned out.

just right. It's just like incredible. It's just like this 27 year old is just like an incredible director already.

But yeah, we've got to talk about the Indianapolis speech. Spielberg said this is his favorite part of the movie. And I think it's probably like most, I think if you ask like 10 people, it's probably like seven of the people would probably say the Indianapolis speech is like the best part of the movie.

Daniel Blackaby (35:02.388)
Well, I think it's even like for me, it's that whole sequence, like even going. Yeah, the whole moment of the three of them, like, I feel like there's so much going on. And it's I guess so like it takes you through so many different emotions and tones. But just the way that the almost like the billboards, the way the characters are positioned and how they change throughout that sequence and just give me, you know.

Eli Price (35:05.802)
Yeah, leading up to it and after too.

Eli Price (35:26.309)
Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (35:30.248)
all sort of apart and eventually they all kind of end up together at the table. And just sort of Brody being the outsider. I love the moment where Quint and Huber are comparing their scars and stuff. And there's sort of that moment where Brody looks down and it looks like maybe a gunshot wound or something. He probably has this great story, but he doesn't share it. He's sort of the outsider and he...

Eli Price (35:34.25)
Mm-hmm.

Eli Price (35:38.731)
Yeah.

Eli Price (35:46.505)
Mm-hmm.

Eli Price (35:52.02)
Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (35:57.068)
he's not going to step. And they're sort of sharing these silly stories. And just so much character. They positions all their characters so well of who they are, what they're about, and how they, in a sense, represents them coming together. And Quint and Hooper finally unite over something. But then just dropping that speech right in the middle of that sequence and just totally taking the air out of the room.

Eli Price (36:06.295)
Mm-hmm.

Eli Price (36:27.05)
Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (36:27.212)
and is having him deliver that. I mean, this is so good the way he, just the way he's, every word in that is just so well, like articulated and just delivered.

Eli Price (36:31.935)
It is.

Eli Price (36:41.014)
Yeah, he, it's so incredible. Like the, so, and I think even, yeah, it was Dreyfus who said, cause one of the things that I think Spielberg does so well is like the whole time he's giving the speech, he keeps Dreyfus like in frame. So you can like see his reaction, like as he's telling the speech. And Dreyfus said like that he was not acting in that he was like,

just as enthralled as you are with the storytelling through that sequence, which I would imagine is probably true. I would have been sitting there with my mouth open to if I was the other actor sitting next to him. But yeah, the version of that speech that we get, I talked about it originated with Sackler. But then it wasn't.

quite long enough. Sackler only wrote like a short little thing. And then they got a guy named John Milius to kind of work on it more. And he wrote this like really long version of it. That was like way too long. And then Shaw actually himself actually like pared it down and like changed it to like fit his, his acting, I guess he, he wrote it.

Uh, cause there were some things that were set a certain way that he was like, uh, maybe this actor could say it that way, but I can't do it that way. So he kind of made it his own and like paired it down to what it is. So, um, even like Robert Shaw had a lot to do with how good that speech was. Um, just getting it exactly right. Uh, and man, it really is. It's, it's just phenomenal. Like, and it.

It's the thing too that I think makes Quint almost as like, just, it gives you empathy for him, if nothing else, you know, you kind of understand who he is and why he is the way he is finally, from that, from that scene.

Daniel Blackaby (38:57.676)
Yeah, because even right before it, Hooper's sort of laughing about the tattoo. And just the subtle moment of Quint sort of putting his hand on Hooper's arm and kind of gently just sort of stopping him. And just showing that more serious side to Quint still sort of smiling, but he's tortured from what's happened. But yeah, definitely does. And I feel like this as a movie, that scene grounds it so much as like a

Eli Price (39:02.242)
Uh-huh.

Eli Price (39:11.202)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Blackaby (39:27.788)
something beyond just the scary monster chomping down on a bunch of people. That is such a great acted kind of dramatic whole sequence that it sort of elevates it beyond just sort of the, the more breezy kind of gross people out type film.

Eli Price (39:45.738)
Right. And, and like the, you really do. So with those three characters, you have these like kind of three different views of masculinity, um, that we've kind of, we've kind of touched on, but, you know, you know, Hooper, I guess is kind of the more intellectual kind of masculine figure Quinn is kind of like the

I don't, I guess like vulgar jock ish kind of like masculine character. And Brody's kind of like, you know, we talked about, he's kind of like the everyman. He's the family man, um, you know, in charge, but doesn't feel like he's in charge sort of, uh, kind of guy, uh, more reserved and, uh, but like in that moment. And it's like, what's cool is like, it's a moment of like really deep vulnerability.

Um, like there's a, it starts off with like a macho contest, right? Who has the best scar, but then it turns into this moment of like deep vulnerability. Uh, and like, especially because it's from the character you'd least expect to that from, um, that like kind of creates this bond, like, and even though they're, they're also very different from different backgrounds, like they're, they're able to.

because Quint was so vulnerable, like find a common ground between them. And doesn't it go into like the show me the way to go home after the indie speech? Yeah. The show me a way to go home. Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (41:27.476)
Oh, yeah, they kind of bookends that speech with two more humorous sort of fun. But then, yeah, when it switches to that, all three of them are now at the table, like Brody at some point, I guess, after the speech just sat down and just sort of...

Eli Price (41:36.556)
Mm-hmm.

Eli Price (41:41.214)
Yeah. He comes and joins them. And that's just another visual of like, now they're all together. Like Brody joins them at the table. They're all sitting there together singing in unison, you know? Um, and one of the cool things kind of behind the scenes was like, you know, the crew kind of, uh, I think I heard about like the crew kind of was feeling like that.

Um, and the crew was kind of like getting teary eyed, not in a like emotional way, but just like, Oh, we feel like we want to go home to kind of thing. Um, but yeah, that's, it's just, it's a very good scene, very powerful. Um,

I guess like other, we talked a lot about like the way he composes and blocks, but like he even doesn't well, like when they're just on the ship, the way they, he films them and edits them together, moving around the ship is just incredible. Um, and you also, another like Spielberg distinctive is you even get some like silhouette shots, he loves to do those silhouette shots. You get it with like, you know, the woman in the water at the beginning, you get it with

Quint standing on the pulpit of the boat with the sunset behind him. Um, just like really pretty shots. Like the one I always think of for Spielberg is like the, um, Raiders of the Lost Ark one when they're, when they're digging is like the one that comes to mind. But I'm noticing like, it's kind of, he does it in every movie. I think the, the like character silhouetted against like a sunset or something like that. Um,

Daniel Blackaby (43:11.428)
Yeah.

Eli Price (43:27.806)
It's just a cool like image, I guess, that he recurringly uses.

Daniel Blackaby (43:32.664)
which is, it just reminds me of another one of my favorite scenes in the movie. I think it comes right after one of those sort of silhouette scenes where Brody is trying to convince like Quint and stuff that they should go back, you know, not stay out the whole night. And he like launches into this argument. And then like the scene, it just sort of fades out and then it switches and they're still out there. Like it just, you know, Spielberg just sort of cuts off his like, you know, it's just some lame argument and he's trying to, you know.

Eli Price (43:56.671)
Mm-hmm.

Eli Price (44:02.028)
Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (44:02.7)
We don't need to say, we can go back, call for help. And he just heard his voice, his trails off. And then all of a sudden you're, it's like the next day or whatever. And it's just such a, it's just a, for me, I always crack up with that, but it's also just for Brody's character. Like, you know, he just, he's really not the one with the, in control at that moment. Like no one's really, the other two guys aren't listening to him. Like he, you know, still doesn't even need to show that, give you as his argument, cause it's going nowhere. But.

Eli Price (44:16.789)
Mm-hmm.

Eli Price (44:20.823)
He's not.

Eli Price (44:30.73)
Yeah. And the scene, also the thing that always gets me is when Quint like smashes the radio, it's like you already know he's nuts, but when he smashes the radio, it's like solidified. Like this guy is like certifiable. He's certifiable, like insane.

Daniel Blackaby (44:42.8)
I'm going to go ahead and close the video.

Daniel Blackaby (44:55.328)
And just Brody, he doesn't know what, he's so mad, they can't do anything, he just keeps like, you're incertifiable.

Eli Price (44:57.526)
He's just like, what?

Eli Price (45:02.89)
Oh man. Yeah, yeah, now that you say that, he vocalizes what we're all thinking.

Daniel Blackaby (45:08.512)
Yeah, he's just... but he can't do anything. He's just sort of yelling at him. I think he smashes too.

Eli Price (45:11.894)
Yeah. Oh man. But yeah, I don't know. I think we've kind of hit on a lot of thematic stuff along the way. Were there any other like kind of themes that are in the movie that you thought we haven't really hit much on that should be brought up?

Daniel Blackaby (45:36.336)
I don't know, I guess this probably isn't a theme, but like you were saying with the three kind of, I guess, ways of expressing sort of their masculinity, the different characters. I just always like that the, you sort of see like all three are needed. Like none of them really trust each other. And really none of them thinks they need each other. I guess they maybe think they need Quint, but, you know, they don't know what their role is. And there's sort of that moment where Quint sort of tells Hooper, like,

Eli Price (45:53.047)
Mm.

Daniel Blackaby (46:06.284)
You know, you don't know. You're not rich boys. Don't have enough education to kind of admit when they're wrong. But then near the end of the film, when the boats half underwater and, you know, the there's three barrels on the shark and it's not working. And kind of Quint grabbed some of Hooper's like, you know, whatever harpoon or gun things and can I can't, you know, like what can these fancy equipment do anything? And like he can't admit he was wrong either.

Eli Price (46:11.278)
Mm-hmm.

Eli Price (46:26.367)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Blackaby (46:34.648)
But it's this moment where in his own way, all the high tech equipment that he just made fun of the whole time, he's like, we need some of that because what I've been doing isn't working. And then obviously Brody's the one that blows the thing up. But just that arc of eventually all their strengths and stuff are utilized in various ways. But as.

Eli Price (46:34.816)
Right.

Eli Price (46:49.972)
Right.

Eli Price (47:04.33)
Yeah. I think that's like.

Eli Price (47:12.058)
You know, you kind of wonder like, well, if they all would have like trusted each other and used each other's strengths, but they have like what they've had as much trouble as they did. I mean, probably still, cause it's a crazy gigantic shark. Uh, but, uh, but yeah, it's, um, that is definitely there. Um, the other thing that like, I had thought of was just how like there are like forces in the world that we.

whether they're natural or, you know, you know, for, for you and I, like we believe there's also like supernatural, you know, forces and, you know, take, you know, listener, take that as you do with that, what you will, but it's undeniable that there's natural like forces out there that, um, that it's hard to call anything but evil.

And, um, and yeah, we, it, I think this movie plays a little bit with that, just that idea of there's evil out there and sometimes it's like uncontrollable. Um, and we, we tried to like suppress our belief in it or sup or at least like, try to ignore it and think, try to tell ourselves that it can't get to us. Uh, but

but it's out there like, and it can. And I think that, I think this movie is playing a little bit with that idea too, just that there are these like, there is evil out there like, and none of us are like, you know, impervious to it. Like we shouldn't like ignore it when it shows itself, we should like deal with it. Or, you know, you could end up on the orca in the middle of the ocean, you know.

getting terrorized by a shark that won't go down. You know.

Daniel Blackaby (49:14.572)
And even just the contrast, like I said, of just Brody. He's scared of the water. And he's supposed to protect people from the shark, but he can't get his feet wet. So sort of, you know, if you make the shark kind of represent some sort of evil or forces or things, just the difference between kind of standing on the shores with dry feet, calling people in frantically to the end, where he is literally being submerged.

Eli Price (49:20.194)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Blackaby (49:42.356)
into the water with the shark for that last shot. Just sort of him finding, I guess, the strength, the courage, or whatever it is, desperation to confront it head on rather than sort of doing whatever he can without actually stepping into the water and kind of getting wet.

Eli Price (49:46.755)
Yeah.

Eli Price (49:53.698)
Yeah.

Eli Price (50:04.138)
Yeah. And I think there's also a degree there of like, he really didn't get. It's so serious as he did get about it until it got real close to him with his son, his son was in the water with the shark, you know, in the estuary. And that's when it really set him off. Um, and it's, it's that I think it's dealing with two of like, do you have to wait until it's like.

so personal to you, you know, can't just like saving other human beings be enough for you to do you know, everything it takes to, you know, get rid of this evil thing that's happening, you know. Um, I think there's, there's something to that too going on. Um, because everyone

Daniel Blackaby (50:54.692)
There's even the progression of the first person that dies, Chrissy is a stranger that they don't know. And then the second one is a boy, which I don't think he knows well, or at least what it relates to his. And then the whatever his name had been, the boat or the corpse. It implies that he at least knows him. He knows whose boat it is. And it's like the threat increasingly gets closer and closer to it.

Eli Price (50:59.628)
Right.

Eli Price (51:07.159)
Yeah.

Eli Price (51:14.39)
Yeah, he was a friend.

Daniel Blackaby (51:23.776)
to sort of his own personal life.

Eli Price (51:26.45)
Right. Yeah. So, you know, I guess like the moral of that would be, you know, don't wait until it's like personal for you. Like it should be enough just to like save other people or whatever the case may be. However applicable it would be like in your life. And not many of us are going to be dealing with like maniac sharks. But, you know, whatever evil is.

Daniel Blackaby (51:51.278)
I'm gonna go.

Eli Price (51:55.266)
happening that you see, like you don't have to wait until like, it's in your house to, to try to like fight against it, I guess. Um,

Daniel Blackaby (52:04.944)
Because the mayor does a similar thing, where he says, my kids were on that beach, too. It sort of hits him close, too, where he finally writes the blank check or whatever it is.

Eli Price (52:10.25)
Yeah. Right.

Eli Price (52:15.926)
Yeah. To pay Quint. Yeah, for sure. Um, I wrote down for final thoughts, uh, another Spielberg, just a book end, another quote from Spielberg. Jaws was a fun movie to watch, but not a fun movie to make. Um, just a book ending with another similar quote that we started with. Um, I wrote down the question. Is it worth the anxiety and torture to make great art?

And from an outsider's perspective, I would say yes, but I didn't have to deal with any, I just get to enjoy it. I didn't have to deal with any of it. But I do think that is a good question to ask.

I, you know, it just kind of makes me think about how like, how much great art throughout history has been made, like through pain and suffering and hardship of one sort or another. It's just, it's kind of incredible to me how like amazing, like beautifully made stuff can come out of like such, like anxiety and hardship.

Eli Price (53:32.03)
Yeah, I don't know if you have any thoughts.

Daniel Blackaby (53:33.884)
Yeah, and he wondered, yeah, he wondered to how many, you know, like this, the making of Jaws was, you know, the train wreck and things went wrong. And then I get led to something great and like lasting, but like not every, you know, there's other movies that go off the rails and it leads to this total garbage, but you don't get the good stuff though. Like, you know, it doesn't mean for some of these artists and, you know, movie makers or authors or whatever you're doing, doesn't mean it could always works. But.

Eli Price (53:44.139)
Right.

Eli Price (53:50.794)
Right, yeah.

Daniel Blackaby (54:02.36)
just that process of just laboring and pivoting and just the anxiety and the pressures. And sometimes that doesn't lead to good ends, but sometimes you get movies like Jaws or any of these other great works of art.

Eli Price (54:02.635)
Right.

Eli Price (54:20.202)
Yeah. And I think, I think there's, um, there's just a bit of like, it's inevitable when you're putting so much of yourself into something that it's not going to be easy.

Eli Price (54:37.966)
So yeah, I don't know. It's an interesting question to think about, like even like things besides are like my business or, you know, whatever it might be. It's definitely a question to ponder. Yeah. Did you, did you have any, any final thoughts before we wrap up our jaws talk?

Daniel Blackaby (54:58.901)
I don't know, maybe just.

Eli Price (54:59.294)
other than we just love the movie.

Daniel Blackaby (55:02.236)
Yeah, I know I'm definitely not the very unbiased, you know, like for me, this is a 10 out of 10 movie. I think this movie is, you know, like people say, you know, there's no perfect movies. And you can probably nitpick things. But like, this is about as close to me as a perfect movie. From kind of top to bottom, there's nothing that doesn't work, other than maybe that it's an old movie and the shark doesn't look real. But like, there's nothing like, there's not a lot of like decisions that like, oh, like,

Eli Price (55:07.01)
Sure. Yeah.

Eli Price (55:16.277)
Mm-hmm.

Eli Price (55:26.954)
Yeah, but I mean...

Daniel Blackaby (55:31.488)
in hindsight, they shouldn't have done this or this scene didn't work. It's just, and I feel like it's the kind of movie that, that holds up. And like, almost like the more I watch it and I talk about it like this, like the more we just appreciate why it's good. Like just all the little details and things that, that just works so well. I think this, the decisions and like the different moments that you see why it is. I think rightly.

Eli Price (55:47.246)
I'm gonna hang up.

Daniel Blackaby (56:01.028)
considered one of the great movies that has ever been made. It really is like a special, that I feel like maybe gets overlooked just because it's monster movies, especially how we think of them now are often just the very popcorn-y, shallow. There's not a whole lot of other monster movies that are at the quality of a draws.

Eli Price (56:07.031)
Right.

Eli Price (56:28.714)
Yeah, no, I agree for sure. Um, and you'll be happy to know that I moved it from a four and a half star or nine out of 10 to a 10 out of 10 on this watch. So, um, yeah, I did. Yeah. It, um, I just, just watching it this, this time around. Um,

Daniel Blackaby (56:43.656)
Oh, I feel like I've done my duty then. If I put even a small part in helping you push it up to that 10 out of 10.

Eli Price (56:58.726)
I was just like, this is just, it's just so good. There's like you said, I kind of agree. Like you could maybe quibble with like the mechanical shark, but I mean, what were they supposed to do? Like train a real shark to do their every like bidding, you know, that you can't really do that. So, and there, there wasn't CGI. So, um, they, you know, I just think like, it's just an incredibly well-made movie.

Daniel Blackaby (57:28.192)
And the thing is too, I'm such a shark movie junkie that I've probably seen every shark movie that's ever been made. Now obviously you can CGI sharks and there's some shark movies that aren't that bad, but you just see the difference between Spielberg's shark movie with a plastic kind of rubber big shark and then someone else's shark movie with a super expensive computer shark.

Eli Price (57:28.22)
Um

Eli Price (57:40.564)
Mm-hmm.

Daniel Blackaby (57:57.804)
And this is not as scary, even though the shark looks more realistic.

Eli Price (58:05.514)
Yeah, it's an incredible feat for sure. Well, yeah, we'll wrap up our Jaws talk. Daniel's going to be joining me again next week for a creature feature draft to accompany this talk about Jaws. So be looking forward to that. I'm excited for that. And then, of course, we'll be getting into Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

Uh, the week after that, it will be our, our next Spielberg film. So, uh, yeah, I'm excited for. To dig into that one. And, uh, I'm actually doing that episode with, uh, Sam Camp, who's been a guest before. And, uh, yeah, Sam works with Daniel at, uh, on the collision and some other projects. So, um, so yeah, it's kind of a fun coincidence to have y'all in, uh, back to back, um, you know, films. Uh,

Daniel Blackaby (58:45.888)
You are.

Eli Price (59:03.342)
for this series. But yeah, Daniel, do you want to share maybe where people can kind of follow you on socials or just follow your work in general? Where are some good places to tune into what you're up to?

Daniel Blackaby (59:19.116)
Yeah, well, you can find me on Twitter slash X, just at Daniel Blackaby. And then if you go to thecollision.org is sort of our website for our site. And kind of that's our home base. If you go there, you can find a link to, we have a YouTube page and we're just launching a new podcast in a couple of weeks, Faith and Pop Culture. So you can find links to all the stuff. Just go to thecollision.org and even.

From there, there's some links to my Facebook and very Instagram and stuff too. So it's probably just a good place to go.

Eli Price (59:51.854)
Cool. Yeah, and like before, I'll make sure to link those in the episode notes. But I think that's all we have for today. We'll look forward to the Creature Feature draft next week. But until then, I've been Eli Price for Daniel Blackaby. You've been listening to The Establishing Shot. We'll see you next time.